Titanium

[sean8997]

I've always had in the back of my mind that someday I'll get myself a new titanium bike.
I'm now in the possition to be able to afford one so went into a shop a couple of days ago and got chatting to one of the guys who works there about ti bikes. He was very negative about them and wouldnt recomend them saying they are too soft and springy, not very fast and prone to cracking. He did say they are very comfortable though for very long rides but not recomended for general cycling or sportives.
My current bikes are a Merida cyclocross 3 2010 model which is aluminium frame and a Specialised globe roll 1 which I picked up earlier this year, so thinking of getting a sportier model.
Would I be better off going for a new carbon bike instead or ignore the advice of the guy in the shop, maybe he just had a bad experience, and go for a titanium?

Any advice most welcome and look forward to your replies.

Sean

 

[smokeysmoo]

Does the shop went to actually sell Ti bikes?

Call me cynical, but I suspect they don't

All frame materials can fail, be that alu, cf, ti, steel, bamboo, cardboard, you name it, and if you do enough research you can easily talk yourself out of buying any of them

IMO failures are without doubt the exception rather than the rule, and will always manifest themselves in some way that you'd pick up on during regular maintenance anyway, although I understand this wouldn't be the case with cf, but I stress again, failure is rare IMO. I also believe some frames have a lifetime warranty to the original buyer, maybe seek out one of those for peace of mind

 

[black'n'yellow]

the bloke in that shop sounds like a right idiot. Having said that, depending on what kind of riding you do, Ti may or may not be the most 'ideal' or optimum frame material for you...

 

[green1]

Too soft and springy... Titianium... There are many words that come to mind when I think of titanium as a material, soft and springy are not on that list. I'd go talk to someone who knows what they are on about.

Edit: Prone to cracking? Really? then why is it used in many industrial envoirments due to is fatigue and crack resistance?

That bloke is a pillock.

 

[benb]

Hmm, which is more prone to cracking, titanium or carbon?

When I secure funds for a new pure speed road bike, I'll almost certainly go titanium. You can get them nearly as light as carbon, and I think they are a fantastic material to make bikes from.

Enigma look interesting.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Hmm, which is more prone to cracking, titanium or carbon?

Titanium is a very difficult material to work with and requires extreme levels of purity and cleanness, any oil, grease or coatings will be taken into the weld and have weakness. Titanium also absorbs elements like oxygen and nitrogen at the kinds of temperatures used for welding which can make it weak this can cause failures around area's which have been welded, its not uncommon to see Titanium Alloys develop hairline cracks over time around area of localized heat.
When welding Titanium you are requited to shield the back of the weld with argon gas failure to do so can result in a weld being very brittle. Any titanium which is discolored is also an indication of impurity in the material or welding commonly associated with using welding rods not made of titanium or including another material as well.

Titanium is not bomb proof, it is not uncommon to fail less than any other material and it can and does crack. Like Carbon it requires a specialist knowledge and production technique to produce quality products.
Like Carbon bikes vary in quality, so do Titanium bikes... There are different grades and different quality's of material, they are not all equal.

Get the right material and bike for the purpose intended.

 

[fossyant]

Steel - these fancy materials will never take off !

 

[rb58]

Enigma look interesting.

I have an Enigma. It's fast, light, well put together and pretty quick. If I lost mine this afternoon, I'd buy another one tomorrow.

 

[Pauluk]

I thought military jet aircraft bodies and wings were made from titanium because its so light and strong and therefore able to withstand the extreme forces involved.

 

[jayonabike]

I have an Enigma. It's fast, light, well put together and pretty quick. If I lost mine this afternoon, I'd buy another one tomorrow.

I ordered an Enigma Echo the other day, should be here in a week or so.

 

[MacB]

I thought military jet aircraft bodies and wings were made from titanium because its so light and strong and therefore able to withstand the extreme forces involved.

I think the criticisms are around the quality of Ti used and the care taken in frame building. Put together to a high spec and with the correct tubes used, then I would imagine any fears would be pretty unfounded.

I don't know the answer but from reading around I get the impression that what is tried and tested with other materials may not work with Ti. So you're then reliant on your builder knowing the differences and how to accomodate that within a bike frame. Even then you have to hope that nothing went wrong during manufacturing and they decided just to let that 'run' pass. The most common failures I've seen have been around the ST/TT and TT/HT junctions, plus a few BB shell ones. All of which indicate the joins as being the issue and not the material. I can only think of two examples of tubes sheared through and both of those were on MTBs.

If you have a lifetime frame warranty that's a plus but it does assume the company will still be there to honour it. My Ti frames are plain gauge and overengineered, I've never weighed them and never asked for a weight from the builder. I'm realtively confident in their robustness and would be less so, perhaps unjustifiedly, if they were built with butting and down to a weight point. But then my main goal was a frame that would never rust rather than a superlightweight beast.

 

[pplpilot]

always makes me smile when I hear conversations with so called experts.

As a mechanical engineer I think I can safely say that Ti is not 'soft and springy' it has excellent properties including tensile strength and has excellent corrosion resistance. Its light, advantage there then. I could rattle off dozens of applications we've used Ti and believe me it's in environments far more demanding than a bike frame. Like someone as already pointed out it requires a certain level of expertise to get the best from unlike everyday carbon steel. It's at joints where most failures are likely to occur.

"I thought military jet aircraft bodies and wings were made from titanium because its so light and strong and therefore able to withstand the extreme forces involved." - Nope, Aluminium skin and Aluminium structure, just like commercial aircraft, although Im activly involved with a project at the moment with a lot of carbon fibre involved

 

[benb]

Coincidentally got an email from Planet X with some discounts on Van Nicholas frames, with more to come.
Now I'm thinking I should build my own.
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/c/q...aign=0fd6490bb0-visionexocet&utm_medium=email

 

[oldroadman]

Litespeed. Full guarantee, built properly, great compliant ride, rigid where it counts, excellent properties all round. Expensive, but if you want the best....

 

[ACS]

I bought a Spa Cycles TI Audax bike this spring. I love it. Very comfortable, smooth to ride, it feels quicker than my 531c road frame and more stable than my Tricross commuter with fat tyres. Purchased it specifically for distance events and I have not regretted the decision one little bit. In fact its amazing how easy it is to convince myself that 20 miles is really long way.

If you can get over to Spa in Harrogate they will let you test ride a bike. Given the level of investment its worth considering.