Truck hazard
- Thread starter Euro
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deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
Though, to be fair, Euro has given feedback to the members on trucknet and the response is not 100% disheartening. Loads of the usual, but a couple of considered replies. http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=106943
I was just going to post that. I think in general the discussion is heartening as is the forum. Of course there are some wayward replies but it seems far less rabid than even we can be sometimes.
maybe he hasnt come back bcoz the thread became unconstructive. I saw no malice or victim blaming in his OP, just what was quite a plausible idea. Or maybe he's at work hoping he doesn't hit a cyclist today.
i haven't gone over to trucknet but I'm sure the thread had a miriad of different opposing emotional opinions and ideas, just as we have on here, but despite anonymous bravado or otherwise, do you really think they are so inhuman that this doesn't affect them? Bottom line is, no one wants this. I'd suggest organising a joint rally on parliament so that we can show a bit of unity against the companies and TfL but i know I'll get told that's a stupid idea by some. But if we joined forces with the truckers perhaps they will have no choice but to listen?
i haven't gone over to trucknet but I'm sure the thread had a miriad of different opposing emotional opinions and ideas, just as we have on here, but despite anonymous bravado or otherwise, do you really think they are so inhuman that this doesn't affect them? Bottom line is, no one wants this. I'd suggest organising a joint rally on parliament so that we can show a bit of unity against the companies and TfL but i know I'll get told that's a stupid idea by some. But if we joined forces with the truckers perhaps they will have no choice but to listen?
@Rhythm Thief is on there I see! Yes it's not all of a piece, and is mostly more misguided than hostile. In the wake of the preceding week's carnage I don't think it's too much to ask for a truck driver to think carefully and read up a bit before posting half-baked and insulting "advice".
No - I don't think that. But it isn't acceptable that the best we have is that concerned drivers "hope" they don't hit a cyclist. The driver is just one link in the chain of responsibility, and the nicest thing I read on that thread is the drivers who said they would love to be banned from London. But it's the transference of responsibility onto the victims that incenses me, the constant focus on the behaviour of those who are maimed and killed, and not those doing the maiming and killing. No thanks to the foghorn, and I don't want ill-informed advice, well-meaning or otherwise - is that polite enough?
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have you seen that one who responds about the cycle awareness course? If that's the kind of inadequate course they are going on, then no wonder we are dying. That's why they are "hoping" they don't hit us. Perhaps we should get in a truck for the day and they should get on a bike for the day. It would totally change both our perspectives and behaviours for the better. Seems they are welcoming a ban in London anyway. Further evidence that they do care and are under equipped which is the fault of their employees
It's interesting and chilling to see the "view" from a cab - @steveindenmark has posted the well-known blind spot video on a simultaneous thread - but the main effect of it is to demonstrate that many HGVs are fundamentally unsafe. This doesn't seem to have changed the hauliers' behaviour very much yet. This from Gordon Seabright's refreshingly robust response to the recent fatalities for CTC (emphasis original):
The industry could move to using safer vehicles with low driver positions, which are already on the market, but they choose not to introduce them in significant numbers. Instead they run occasional schemes called “Exchanging Places”, in which cyclists are invited to sit in lorry cabs and see for themselves how limited the visibility is. In other words, hauliers are demonstrating how unfit to share the roads their vehicles are, and expecting vulnerable road users to take responsibility for avoiding them.
We know from the Freight Transport Association’s disparagement of even modest efforts on behalf of cycle safety by government that hauliers refuse to take this issue seriously. Until they do, CTC would like to see the leaders of the haulage industry called in to see the Transport Minister and explain themselves in person every time their HGVs kill a cyclist.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/hold-hauliers-to-account-over-cyclist-fatalities-says-ctc
We know from the Freight Transport Association’s disparagement of even modest efforts on behalf of cycle safety by government that hauliers refuse to take this issue seriously. Until they do, CTC would like to see the leaders of the haulage industry called in to see the Transport Minister and explain themselves in person every time their HGVs kill a cyclist.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/news/hold-hauliers-to-account-over-cyclist-fatalities-says-ctc
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steveindenmark
Legendary Member
Claud, you made me think of something.
The mirrors on most LGV vehicles are not good. As I have said before, mirrors are not the answer to the problem.
Coach mirrors are far better and most coaches are rigid. Why are there so many coach/cycle accidents?
I cannot believe that this is all driver error. It must be driver/ cyclist/ road design/ vehicle design error. The sooner all the bickering and finger pointing from all sides stop. The sooner there will be a chance of things getting sorted.
Steve
The mirrors on most LGV vehicles are not good. As I have said before, mirrors are not the answer to the problem.
Coach mirrors are far better and most coaches are rigid. Why are there so many coach/cycle accidents?
I cannot believe that this is all driver error. It must be driver/ cyclist/ road design/ vehicle design error. The sooner all the bickering and finger pointing from all sides stop. The sooner there will be a chance of things getting sorted.
Steve
the fact that they are fundamentally unsafe is down to the company, not the individual who is driving it. If they cant see, they can't see. End of. Short of getting out and having a look what can they do? even if they did that by the time they got back in there could be a cyclist there. no wonder they are hoping to be banned from London. TfL build a shoot infrastructure, haulage companies refuse to invest, but its the drivers and cyclists that suffer in consequences. from what I've read on transnet there is no malice towards cyclists, just the same frustrations we feel from a different perspective.
steveindenmark
Legendary Member
Buggi what you have said is spot on.
If BMW can make a car that drives itself I would have thought letting a lorry driver see all round his vehicle without getting out of the cab, would be a doddle.
Steve
If BMW can make a car that drives itself I would have thought letting a lorry driver see all round his vehicle without getting out of the cab, would be a doddle.
Steve
there are enough brains between the haulage companies, TfL, LCC, truckers and cyclist organisations to get together and design the following:
1 roads and junctions that are safe for all.
2 trucks that have great visibility with back up technology where visibility is poor
3 fit for purpose driver training (not the inadequate crap outlined on their forum)
4 fit for purpose cycle training which compliments the driver training and works with it rather than against it.
all of these things would help reduce the injuries and deaths but instead everyone works in silos and stands around blaming each other, refusing to listen to the other ones issues and nothing gets solved.
1 roads and junctions that are safe for all.
2 trucks that have great visibility with back up technology where visibility is poor
3 fit for purpose driver training (not the inadequate crap outlined on their forum)
4 fit for purpose cycle training which compliments the driver training and works with it rather than against it.
all of these things would help reduce the injuries and deaths but instead everyone works in silos and stands around blaming each other, refusing to listen to the other ones issues and nothing gets solved.
deptfordmarmoset
Full time tea drinker
- Location
- Armonmy Way
even so, humans are fallible. You can never rely on one thing which is why there should be layer on layer of processes designed to overlap the weaknesses of the other layers in the process. Everyone needs to work together on this (see my other recent post)