Tubs v clinchers (sew-ups v wire-ons)

[thegravestoneman]

I don't know if it is me but after recently(ish) switching to clinchers (Schwalbe Ultremo zx tubeless) from tubs I find that I now have no confidence in cornering. Now this will be my first winter on a bike in 25 years so the greasy damp roads could well be the cause of this but I had no problems with my tubs from February this year and could fling my bike about with no fear. The Ultremos have had good write-ups for their handling and road holding. So basically is this due to the tyres, the conditions , clinchers in general, my increased years and fear of the long recovery from hitting the tarmac now takes or what?

I suppose I could just put my tubs back on but I would have to buy some new spares and don't really want the expense or to explain to my beloved who bought me the new wheels and tyres with out good back up.

Or I could throw all my spare cash at getting my trike back up and running and not worry about the corners at all.

cheers Gaz

 

[Koga]

Why worry about corners in the first place, you can only go through them as quickly as you deem suitable / dare.
I would compare the handling in the dry versus handling in the wet and take it from there.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Did you fall off the bike recently?
Ime I'm scared of cornering for a few weeks after taking a tumble.
But if I'm riding another bike, not the one I fell off, I'm fine.
Getting on in years brings prudence for sure.

 

[thegravestoneman]

just twice recently first time resulting in a week off work, both times getting a comedy limp. It has made me more wary, but I am sure the grip ain't so good. I changed route today as I really didn't think I would make a corner today so took the straight on and sadly shorter option home.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

just twice recently first time resulting in a week off work, both times getting a comedy limp. It has made me more wary, but I am sure the grip ain't so good. I changed route today as I really didn't think I would make a corner today so took the straight on and sadly shorter option home.

I am sure you will be fine on your new tyres once your body forgets how sore it was.

 

[Koga]

OK, looks like very little to do with the material.
As said above, you will get used to it again. In the meantime don't worry about it just go slower through the corner, that's what most people will do in your situation.
Once you get your confidence back: just before and whilst in the corner, don't look in front of your wheel but look out of the corner in this way you will direct yourself automatically through the corner.

 

[snailracer]

New clincher tyres can be slippery, perhaps they are covered with residual mould-release lubricant on them, lube to help the bead slide over the rim, or a wax to make them look shiny. After a few rides their grip improves.

I would imagine tubs would be shipped clean, otherwise it would be difficult to glue them securely.

 

[Rob3rt]

Go for clinchers....I haven't ridden tubs for over 25 years.

Convincing argument!

 

[VamP]

New tyres are covered in release agent and this makes them slippery at first. Ultremos grip really well IME, easily comparable to my Corsa Evo CX tubs. The tubs roll a bit better, but I can't honestly feel any difference in cornering grip, wet or dry, even in crit racing.

If you are still losing grip on wet corners once the Ultremos have been run in, look at your pressures. Slightly lower pressures improve wet grip (for all tyre types).

 

[oldroadman]

New tyres are covered in release agent and this makes them slippery at first. Ultremos grip really well IME, easily comparable to my Corsa Evo CX tubs. The tubs roll a bit better, but I can't honestly feel any difference in cornering grip, wet or dry, even in crit racing.

If you are still losing grip on wet corners once the Ultremos have been run in, look at your pressures. Slightly lower pressures improve wet grip (for all tyre types).

Agree, lower the pressure a little. Clinchers (unless they are folders) are stiffer than tubs so allow less flex. The comments about release agent are right. A mate who is a moto rider always wipes down new tyres with a solvent immediately after installation, which gets rid of the mould release residue and also adds a little "stickiness" to the tyre for the first few miles until it settles in and gets abraded by the road surface.
Plus using latex inner tubes, which are light and flexible, can help with a smoother ride and easy cornering. The downside is faster pressure loss (so more pump work), but that's small price to pay for an all round nicer ride. And slow down a bit in the wet..

 

[VamP]

Agree, lower the pressure a little. Clinchers (unless they are folders) are stiffer than tubs so allow less flex. The comments about release agent are right. A mate who is a moto rider always wipes down new tyres with a solvent immediately after installation, which gets rid of the mould release residue and also adds a little "stickiness" to the tyre for the first few miles until it settles in and gets abraded by the road surface.
Plus using latex inner tubes, which are light and flexible, can help with a smoother ride and easy cornering. The downside is faster pressure loss (so more pump work), but that's small price to pay for an all round nicer ride. And slow down a bit in the wet..

Indeed, latex tubes rock. I tend to look on the need to inflate before each ride as a plus - it means you always know what pressures you are riding on. Latex tubes seem to puncture less often too.

 

[thegravestoneman]

The tyres are tubeless so no inner tube worries and folders, also about 1000 miles in (got them in October) so the mould release is long gone. I do probably ride them at too high a pressure I have tried running them lower about 80-90 but I guess I tend to push them to about 100 through habit, I will have to keep myself in check with the track pump! (I will put a sticker on it).
On thinking about it I have also been riding my old steel road bike which I have turned into a fixed wheel for the winter season (well after doing a bit of track racing on the grass it was halfway there) and that is now on cheapy schwalbe blizzards and I don't seem to have issues with that. It could be that the handling on the new carbon is not up to the standard of my old 531 handbuilt with its 74/74 frame? and the bit of damp on the roads is highlighting it.
Thanks everyone for your input I shall have a play this weekend with noted pressures and see how I get on.
Any other views or ideas will be gladly received.

Gaz

 

[VamP]

Just a thought, are these coloured Ultremos?

 

[thegravestoneman]

nope, black uns

 

[ayceejay]

Different wheels with different type of tyre? One set up may not be better or worse - just different.
I am a tub fan but a couple of years ago I bought some gatorskins and I didn't enjoy them at all, when one popped for no reason I decided to try clinches, I bought Clement Strada in a 25 and latex tubes - the ride is just like Clement tubs of yore and seem MORE robust than the gatorskins.