Two abreast

[jonny jeez]

Talking about education - I was informed by a driving instructor who had just edged me off the road that as a cyclist I was only allowed in the area three feet from the edge of the road, the rest of the road he said, belonged to cars. His dangerous maneuver was to teach me this 'fact'.

Is that true in Canada?

I think I would have struggled to keep my cool with someone in the Uk talking claptrap like that., especially if they had just "punish passed" me

 

[boydj]

Ac

Actually, I don't agree with this logic...I know, I know two riders are longer than one but overtaking a car sized object takes longer than overtaking a bike sized object, even if that bike is in a strong primary.

You need to provide another meter or so of clearance to overtake two abreast riders and sometimes, doing that safely takes time.

There is a time and a place for riding two abreast...in my opinion and I know this is an opinion that is not shared by many.

Riding two abreast is a great experience but one soon spoiled by angry drivers, why not just filter back and wave through drivers, get a toot of thanks and then ride back in formation.

Result, everyone has a great day, a great experience and no one takes to the Internet in fury.

As,for the milk float tractor analogy, on a good sunny day I see literally hundreds of cyclists enjoying the road...I think I've seen three tractors in my riding life and never...ever...encountered a milk float.

Horses, now I see tons of them, that would have been a better comparison. For some reason drivers give horses massive respect.

Cyclists are not as nice as horses, clearly.

Edit, overtaking a peloton is a different thing and I totally agree that bunching and riding two or even three abreast is often safer for all parties.

But just two riders?...chill and communicate.

On many roads, and especially on narrow country roads, a motorist would have to go just as wide to overtake a single cyclist riding in primary (or even a strong secondary) as they would to overtake two cyclists riding abreast.

Singling up on a narrow road can often be seen as an invitation to pass regardless of oncoming traffic and then result in a close pass to both riders. With two riders abreast the outer rider is more often than not no further from the edge than they would be if riding alone.

 

[ayceejay]

Is that true in Canada?

I think I would have struggled to keep my cool with someone in the Uk talking claptrap like that., especially if they had just "punish passed" me

Of course it is not true especially when he was claiming the right to 'punish' me as you say, because I was in HIS part of the road.
Today motor cyclist often ride in pairs taking the whole of the road as a protest against a similar attitude towards them.
Local police advise
Cyclists must comply with the same rules of the road that bind motor vehicle drivers, except for the following restrictions:

• They must always travel on the extreme right-hand side of the road
• They must ride in single file when in groups of two or more

 

[jonny jeez]

On many roads, and especially on narrow country roads, a motorist would have to go just as wide to overtake a single cyclist riding in primary (or even a strong secondary) as they would to overtake two cyclists riding abreast.

Singling up on a narrow road can often be seen as an invitation to pass regardless of oncoming traffic and then result in a close pass to both riders. With two riders abreast the outer rider is more often than not no further from the edge than they would be if riding alone.

Why does the width of the road dictate how much space a driver should give. Passing cars should give adequate space at all times.

I'm being pedantic, I kind of know what you are getting at but I disagree, two riders take more width than one. On a small country road, it likely as not makes no difference as their isn't enough room to swing a cat let alone pass a single cyclist....like I say there is a time and a place. My view is if a driver can't easily pass one rider, then I may as well ride two abreast but even then I thank the car behind and seek a spot to pull in and wave them past if the road ahead is clear and wide enough. I treat country lanes as I do pinch points

On busy, fast roads I think riding two abreast, unless in a larger group, should be done so with caution..

There is another thing about small groups (2-4) riding two abreast versus peletons, generally small groups ride two abreast to have a chat and enjoy the ride...I do his a lot. This tends to mean that you aren't spinning along at club pace (20-25 mph) and so are more likely to be slower and frustrate drivers...peletons don't generally ride in formation for a chat, they do so to cover miles at speed, sharing the wind and pulling the group along. Driving behind a peleton moving at nearly 30 mph is not as frustrating for drivers I suspect.

 

[jonny jeez]

Of course it is not true

• They must ride in single file when in groups of two or more

Just checking...also ( and I'm pulling your leg here)..how would a group smaller than 2 ride in anything other than single file?

Canadian rules eh?

 

[boydj]

Why does the width of the road dictate how much space a driver should give. Passing cars should give adequate space at all times.

It doesn't. On narrow roads a motorist has to go most, or all, of the way into the opposite lane to overtake, whether it's a single rider or two abreast, so singling up should make no difference to when a driver can safely overtake.

 

[derrick]

A few of them Beeps are people just letting you know they are there, i only know this because i stopped a driver and ask why he beeped, You know the ones who beep because you are in there way. It's normally a longer beep.
As for common sense what can i say, some people have it some don't

 

[jonny jeez]

It doesn't. On narrow roads a motorist has to go most, or all, of the way into the opposite lane to overtake, whether it's a single rider or two abreast, so singling up should make no difference to when a driver can safely overtake.

Sorry Boydj, that just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make a difference how wide the road is, drivers should always give adequate space when passing. If they can't then they shouldn't pass .

Two riders means the one one the offside is further out and so the passing driver needs to give more room. The width of the road just dictates if that room is available. On most country roads, it isn't...even for a single rider.

You've lost me I'm afraid.

J

 

[ayceejay]

TOOT TOOT get out of my way
My car's in a terrible hurry today

 

[Markymark]

Right. A car needs to pass into the incoming lane to pass a cyclist with sufficient space. This requires the oncoming traffic to be free to allow overtake. If therefore makes little difference whether you're passing one or two bikes.

However, single file cyclists can be overtaken with oncoming traffic if the car passes dangerously close. They cannot manage this if riding 2 abreast. Therefor many cyclists ride this way to prevent the dangerous close overtakes from drivers too impatient to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic.

 

[The Jogger]

What about if it is a narrow road or country lane , should we not go cycle file to allow a car to pass? I think so.

 

[John the Monkey]

I ride often with one other and have experienced the same. To be honest I don't bother retaliating and just get on with it. I suppose they just think that if the cyclists were single file then they'd be able to pass without having to cross the white line not that it makes a difference. Most of the time we ride single file anyway.

I think you're overthinking this.

The drivers are, most likely, just in a rotten mood, and society deems "road rage" to be an acceptable outlet for their unreasoning aggression. They're also way more likely to get away with threatening a cyclist, or pedestrian than they are their fellow motorists, a truck driver, or a group of Hell's Angels.

Hunter S. Thompson said something at the start of "Hell's Angels" that I think rings true still;

The highways are crowded with people who drive as if their sole purpose in getting behind the wheel is to avenge every wrong ever done them by man, beast, or fate. The only thing that keeps them in line is their own fear of death, jail and lawsuits...which are much less likely if they can find a motorcycle to challenge instead of another two thousand pound car or a concrete abutment. A motorcyclist has to drive [sic] as though everybody else on the road is out to kill him.

A few of them are, and many of those who aren't are just as dangerous - because the only thing that can alter their careless, ingrained driving habits is a threat of punishment, either legal or physical, and there is nothing about a motorcycle to threaten any man in a car. A bike is totally vulnerable; its only defence is manoeuvrability, and every accident situation is potentially fatal.

I often ride this way on more dangerous roads when in a group it forces cars to overtake properly.

Sometimes. It's the Hobson's Choice of riding in Britain. E.g. sometimes, taking primary gets them to go wider, sometimes, it gets them skimming your handlebars while yelling obscenities at you out of their windows.

 

[John the Monkey]

What about if it is a narrow road or country lane , should we not go cycle file to allow a car to pass? I think so.

Can they pass safely? Are you putting the people you're riding with at risk if you single up?

 

[John the Monkey]

Common sense should prevail but, I forgot, health and safety put a stop to that so we need to be told when to go back to single file .

Early objections to the Highway Code, and driver testing were founded on just such assumptions; as drivers were gentlemen, any such stipulations were, surely, unnecessary, if I remember the relevant chapter of Joe Moran's "On Roads" correctly.

 

[benb]

If, by singling up, it would allow space for a safe overtake that isn't there otherwise, then we should single up.

In the majority of situations it makes no difference, so the only reason would be to make the following driver feel like we're being suitably deferential. Maybe we should tug our forelock or salute as they overtake?