UK road deaths reach record low

[HJ]

Speaking as an ex-driving instructor, I have to say that driving standards are appallingly low. Compulsory re-testing of drivers every five years would help, but it would take a lot of time to get all of the idiots off the road...

 

[skwerl]

My perspective is, a lot of people could do with driving a lot better... 'Perspective' isn't much consolation when you or someone you love has been killed by someone else's lack of attention, or risk taking.

nothing is much consolation in that situation. My concern is that when you start applying automatic judgement to situations we sweep up a bunch of edge cases that shouldn't be there. Accidents - real accidents - do happen, it's an unfortunate fact of life but if you go down the route of automatically blaming the car driver you're not going to differentiate between the genuine accident and the 'bad driver'.

Take for example the bloke on a bike that rides straight out of a side road and in front of a car. If you automatically apportion 51% of the blame to the driver 9as they do in Holland) and there are no witnesses, the driver's screwed. Unless the cyclist comes clean but what kind of muppet, that does that in the first place, is likely to come clean?

 

[skwerl]

Speaking as an ex-driving instructor, I have to say that driving standards are appallingly low. Compulsory re-testing of drivers every five years would help, but it would take a lot of time to get all of the idiots off the road...

Cycling standards are also appallingly low. Cyclists require no training and no licencing.

 

[skwerl]

I was thinking the other day, a good way to improve road safety (apart from the big metal spike in the centre of the steering wheel) would be to have seatbelts compulsory for passengers, but forbidden for drivers....

that's great for the guy that gets rear-ended

 

[Tynan]

the three main causes of fatal accident for motorcyclists all involve them losing control and leaving the road so their fault primarily

as for car accidents, the law is rather big on intent, mens rea, so accidents aren;t overly criminalised

 

[skwerl]

the three main causes of fatal accident for motorcyclists all involve them losing control and leaving the road so their fault primarily

as for car accidents, the law is rather big on intent, mens rea, so accidents aren;t overly criminalised

yes but there are people suggesting adopting a 51% rule like the Netherlands. That way, barring evidence to the contrary, the car driver will be found guilty

 

[summerdays]

But currently the car driver is innocent unless proven guilty... where as there are a number of occasions when they have been negligent - all those folk on their phones for example. Currently the balance of power is in the hands of those who also hold the biggest weapons, the scales need to be tipped slightly back the other way.

 

[Davidc]

Speaking as an ex-driving instructor, I have to say that driving standards are appallingly low. Compulsory re-testing of drivers every five years would help, but it would take a lot of time to get all of the idiots off the road...

Impractical, but a workable compromise would be a retest for everyone who gets a ban.

 

[Bromptonaut]

What does seriously injured actually mean. Lot of difference between a broken wrist and brain damage.

 

[skwerl]

Impractical, but a workable compromise would be a retest for everyone who gets a ban.

I don't think it's impractical (except for the driver). It's already the case for those convicted of death by dangerous driving. They take a double-length test. 'tis a good idea to extend to all banned drivers

 

[User169]

yes but there are people suggesting adopting a 51% rule like the Netherlands. That way, barring evidence to the contrary, the car driver will be found guilty

One of the problems with any discussion of strict liability seems to be that it is largely misunderstood; strict liability only applies to civil compensation
and does not affect criminal prosecution.

Lord Denning put it well:

“In the present state of motor traffic, I am persuaded that any civilised system of law should require, as a matter of principle, that the person who uses this dangerous instrument on the roads – dealing death and destruction all round – should be liable to make compensation to anyone who is killed or injured in consequence of the use of it. There should be liability without proof of fault. To require an injured person to prove fault results in the gravest injustice to many innocent persons who have not the wherewithal
to prove it.”

If you don't like it, you could always choose not to drive.

 

[Origamist]

Exactly, D-P. The Denning quote is part of Road Peace's campaigning document for strict liability, IIRC.

 

[Davidc]

The difficulty with that is that a lot of banned drivers continue driving. Or haven't got a license in the first place.

As with many aspects of road use technology is helping, but can't solve all problems.

As with many aspects of breaking of road law the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Unlicenced driving and carrying a sawn off shotgun seem to me to be about comparable. I clearly don't see eye to eye with our legislators!

 

[skwerl]

As with many aspects of road use technology is helping, but can't solve all problems.

As with many aspects of breaking of road law the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Unlicenced driving and carrying a sawn off shotgun seem to me to be about comparable. I clearly don't see eye to eye with our legislators!

why does driving without a licence indicate intent to harm someone?

 

[Davidc]

why does driving without a licence indicate intent to harm someone?

If you don't have a licence you are not competent to drive. Either you havent passed a test or a court has said you aren't.

Its the same as flying a 747 with 500 passengers without a licence, but that's more difficult to do.

It's great that the number of deaths has gone down. Compared to the mid 1960s (8000 dead each year) the improvement's huge. If however we want to get to a situation where the roads are actually safe its going to need a real change in attitudes, including an understanding that a motor vehicle is a lethal device which only those who can use them responsibly can drive!