UK road deaths reach record low

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skwerl

New Member
Location
London
HJ said:
A driving license has nothing to do with raising revenue, just because the word license is used.

ho-ho-ho. good one.
It's primary purpose may not be revenue generation but to think that there's no profit rolled in is pretty naiive.

The DVLA recently starting insisting on renewing licences every 10 years (at a cost of £10) to ensure that photo likenesses are kept up to date. Nothing stopping me, the next day, from dying my hair and growing a beard but hey, it's another 10 quid to spend on moat clearances and duck houses. If they really cared they'd insist on regular eye exams and would mark the licences of those that need glasses. That might actually cost them something though
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
If you compare the DVLA to the annual (or three yearly) need of bus passes to be updated it seems a very enlightened regime having it every 10 years.

Furthermore if one advocates like I do some kind of retesting and not licences for life (till 70) then it seems even more generous.
 
U

User169

Guest
skwerl said:
So you think that a law that can jail an innocent driver is worth it if it saves lives? What about the impact to the driver and their family? I guess they can just suffer if it "stops the carnage". Please please stop the carnage. Now, where's my Daily Mail?

Nobody is suggesting jailing drivers - this is a complete red herring as I pointed out earlier.

The issue here, if you want to compare with Holland, is civil liability - for a fuller explanation see here
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
Do you have any info from Holland that would validate your concerns? Because all I have seen when cycling over there is completely different, and cycle-safer, road culture.

"culture" being the key word. I believe that cycling in Holland is safe because of a cultural difference to the UK, not because of a law. ie people choose to behave a certain way because it's the right thing to do, not because they're worried about the legal ramifications. Cycling in France is safer than the UK yet road safety over there is far worse. reason being that cycling is respected as a sport in France and that manifests itself in considerate driving around cyclists. How the French drive when there aren't bikes around is a different story.
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
marinyork said:
Moaning about the reverse scenario seems small beans.

not to the driver that gets stitched up it's not. Or are you saying a few sacrifices are worth it for the greater good?
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
skwerl said:
not to the driver that gets stitched up it's not. Or are you saying a few sacrifices are worth it for the greater good?

They aren't going to get stitched up for it and you know that perfectly well. In the vast majority of such collisions it'd get brushed under the carpet with little or no action taken.

In anycase in the pulling out "spectrum", not being able to spot someone doing this one is a rookie's error in some cases.
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
skwerl said:
"culture" being the key word. I believe that cycling in Holland is safe because of a cultural difference to the UK, not because of a law. ie people choose to behave a certain way because it's the right thing to do, not because they're worried about the legal ramifications.


How did that cultural shift come about? Here are a raft of factors that have changed the driving culture in the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany:

• Well-maintained, fully integrated paths, lanes and special bicycle streets in cities and surrounding
regions
• Fully coordinated system of colour-coded directional signs for bicyclists
• Off-street short-cuts, such as mid-block connections and passages through dead-ends for cars
Intersection modifications and priority traffic signals
• Advance green lights for cyclists at most intersections
• Advanced cyclist waiting positions (ahead of cars) fed by special bike lanes facilitate safer and
quicker crossings and turns
• Cyclist short-cuts to make right-hand turns before intersections and exemption from red traffic
signals at T-intersections, thus increasing cyclist speed and safety
• Bike paths turn into brightly coloured bike lanes when crossing intersections
• Traffic signals are synchronized at cyclist speeds assuring consecutive green lights for cyclists
(green wave)
• Bollards with flashing lights along bike routes signal cyclists the right speed to reach the next
intersection at a green light
Traffic calming
• Traffic calming of all residential neighbourhoods via speed limit (30 km/hr) and physical
infrastructure deterrents for cars
• Bicycle streets, narrow roads where bikes have absolute priority over cars
• ‘Home Zones’ with 7 km/hr speed limit, where cars must yield to pedestrians and cyclists using
the road
Bike parking
• Large supply of good bike parking throughout the city
• Improved lighting and security of bike parking facilities often featuring guards, video-surveillance
and priority parking for women
Coordination with public transport
• Extensive bike parking at all metro, suburban and regional train stations
• ‘Call a Bike’ programmes: bikes can be rented by cell phone at transit stops, paid for by the minute
and left at any busy intersection in the city
• Bike rentals at most train stations
• Deluxe bike parking garages at some train stations, with video-surveillance, special lighting,
music, repair services and bike rentals
Traffic education and training
• Comprehensive cycling training courses for virtually all school children with test by traffic
police
• Special cycling training test tracks for children
• Stringent training of motorists to respect pedestrians and cyclists and avoid hitting them
Traffic laws
• Special legal protection for children and elderly cyclists
• Motorists assumed by law to be responsible for almost all crashes with cyclists
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
marinyork said:
They aren't going to get stitched up for it and you know that perfectly well. In the vast majority of such collisions it'd get brushed under the carpet with little or no action taken.

In anycase in the pulling out "spectrum", not being able to spot someone doing this one is a rookie's error in some cases.

they are under the 51% rule which is where this example stems from, if you care to look back through the thread
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
Have you got any stats on the number of Dutch drivers stitched up in this way?
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
Origamist said:
How did that cultural shift come about? Here are a raft of factors that have changed the driving culture in the Netherlands, Denmark and Germany:


I was referring a to a deeper cultural diiference. The Dutch have a much more socialist society than the UK. I'm just curious re whether the legal situation has a significant impact, ie would things be the way they are over here without the laws in place. A question that probably can't be answered
 

summerdays

Cycling in the sun
Location
Bristol
And has anyone got any idea of the number of cyclists currently who are injured in accidents because the car driver didn't value their lives as opposed to number injured. I know nothing has ever happened in the couple of collisions I have had where a car and a lorry both hit me and in both cases I was on the main road, they were joining it.

It would help to create the right culture in this country where currently we under value the rights of pedestrians and cyclists.
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
Arch said:
Have you got any stats on the number of Dutch drivers stitched up in this way?

of course not. do you have any stats that show a direct correlation with the introduction of these laws and a reduction in fatalities?
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
skwerl said:
of course not. do you have any stats that show a direct correlation with the introduction of these laws and a reduction in fatalities?

Not to hand no. So, we are equal then.

I'm sure someone will though....

Origamist, do you have a reference for your cut and paste bit?
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
summerdays said:
And has anyone got any idea of the number of cyclists currently who are injured in accidents because the car driver didn't value their lives as opposed to number injured. I know nothing has ever happened in the couple of collisions I have had where a car and a lorry both hit me and in both cases I was on the main road, they were joining it.

It would help to create the right culture in this country where currently we under value the rights of pedestrians and cyclists.

you'll never get such a statistic. no driver will pronounce the reason they ploughed down a cyclist is because they had no thought for their wellbeing.
 

skwerl

New Member
Location
London
Arch said:
Not to hand no. So, we are equal then.

I'm sure someone will though....

Origamist, do you have a reference for your cut and paste bit?

I doubt the stats exist. Anyway. 92% of all statistics are made up. 78% of people know that.
 
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