Use the cycle path!!

[classic33]

Totally agree with you. We will come back to your point when I discuss Danish cycle paths, my complaints and the councils reactions.

You need cycle paths designed by people who know what it is like to cycle on them. We have that. But that does not mean that just because you are a cyclist you get everything you want. We dont, we compromise. But sometimes we get things far beyond our expections.

I'd check on when the design changes came into place and why.

 

[mjr]

Put a line of paint down a pavement, and "interlopers" is exactly what we are.

Put a line of paint down a typical pavement and it doesn't make it a decent cycle track, so such poor actions don't help and IMO should not be done.

I find it instructive that your view of normal human behaviour is "arrogance".

And likewise, I find it instructive that your view of obstructing the entire width of a way (to following faster walkers or joggers as well as cyclists) is "normal human behaviour". It sure doesn't seem normal in other countries.

 

[mjr]

Not my recent experience in Paris (where the cyclepaths seemed to have more pedestrians than cyclists in them), Milan, Rome, Barcelona...

Oh well, it is mine of Milan, Paris and Bordeaux among many others... and parts of Barcelona had so many people walking that it seemed to me like simple overcrowding rather than deliberate blocking.

 

[User482]

Put a line of paint down a typical pavement and it doesn't make it a decent cycle track, so such poor actions don't help and IMO should not be done.


And likewise, I find it instructive that your view of obstructing the entire width of a way (to following faster walkers or joggers as well as cyclists) is "normal human behaviour". It sure doesn't seem normal in other countries.

When walking, "normal human behaviour" does not include acting like traffic. As I said earlier, pedestrians, when left to their own devices, are perfectly capable of negotiating busy streets without incident. The problem occurs when cyclists - some of whom would appear to have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement - are thrown into the mix.

 

[andrew_s]

I believe that @RobWard is a bus driver, in which case he will find getting past on-road cyclists more difficult than will a regular motorist. With also being under pressure from the company to keep to timetable, I can see why he's seen fit to ask about cycle track usage.

In my case, I view the standard of UK cycle provision as generally being so low that I'll only use a cycle route or facility if I've previously sussed it out as being useful to me. If out of my local patch, that means they don't generally get used.

 

[RobWard]

I believe that @RobWard is a bus driver, in which case he will find getting past on-road cyclists more difficult than will a regular motorist. With also being under pressure from the company to keep to timetable, I can see why he's seen fit to ask about cycle track usage.

In my case, I view the standard of UK cycle provision as generally being so low that I'll only use a cycle route or facility if I've previously sussed it out as being useful to me. If out of my local patch, that means they don't generally get used.

Well, I held back on mentioning I was also a bus driver, didnt want to fuel the fire anymore than I was already getting. Yes, I get stick and abuse for being a bus driver trying to do my job. I got stick as a Hgv driver trying to do my job and now I have taken up cycling I am getting stick from drivers and fellow online cyclist. In fact I am probably the one who has had most stick and abuse off every road user, pedestrian known to man!.

I was on my bus at the time when the traffic came to a stand still. The cyclist two cars in front was stationary awaiting traffic to move when I noticed the cycle path to the right. Thats what made me think "Why is he not using that" ? It was clear and he would of been well ahead of he standing traffic. Your replies have been most helpful regarding, glass, bad paths, junctions etc etc. Thats what made me understand why most dont use them.

Was just a simple question from a newbie. Thanks for the welcome. Most heart warning.

Also thanks Andrew for your reply, one of the better ones.

 

[Inertia]

I was on my bus at the time when the traffic came to a stand still. The cyclist two cars in front was stationary awaiting traffic to move when I noticed the cycle path to the right. Thats what made me think "Why is he not using that" ? It was clear and he would of been well ahead of he standing traffic. Your replies have been most helpful regarding, glass, bad paths, junctions etc etc. Thats what made me understand why most dont use them.

Well its great news that you are convinced, now spread the word when you hear someone cursing us

One problem IME is that people who argue we should be on cycle paths, qute often just want us out of the way, full stop. They dont care where we are just as long as we arent in their way. If we are on the road they want us off the road on a shared path. If they are out of their car and on the pavement walking their dog, they will be cursing us for being on the pavement and making them move when we want to get past.

 

[summerdays]

Actually I get lots of courteous passes by buses and also do the opposite by letting them out into traffic when they are ready to pull out from a bus stop.

There are good and bad cycle path, on my commute which is about to change, I'm suddenly thinking I'm going to miss the best bits of the cycle path I use daily, which takes me away from traffic at the best bits. Other bits are too narrow (bordered with nettles), not wide enough for the numbers who are using it, and has silly barriers which mean you end up queuing in the road to rejoin the path after a junction.

 

[benb]

Pedestrians are almost never banned from cycle tracks (it's theoretically possible but I'm not aware of any where it's actually been done) so I suspect those criteria rule out every one in the UK today. Although this has gotten me flamed by some advocates before and I know it's not current best practice among groups I work for, personally I'm OK with sharing if the width is adequate for usage (both walking and cycling) - aren't you?

I was thinking more of ones that are on the road, but properly protected by kerbs, like the new CSH in London. Pedestrians won't use that, and it's proper protected space for cycling.

I don't like shared use facilities because pedestrians don't really stick to "their" side (and why should they? It's a pavement with a painted line on it!) but there are a couple that cut through a park that are OK, but only because they cut a corner off the road. Ones that are alongside roads are never as convenient, because you need to slow down to little more than walking pace to make them usable, and they invariably make you cede priority at side roads.

 

[Profpointy]

I think cycle lanes as a rule can be sumarised as making the already safe straight bits marginally safer but make the dangerous bits (junctions, rejoining the road - often at a narrow bit etc) a lot more dangerous. And this is even if we ignore the complete nonsense ones.

And regarding bus drivers - the guys in Bristol seem pretty good (viewed as a cylist) and after a few weeks in London the drivers of the 27 and 31 at least seem Ok too (as viewed from the top deck as a passenger)

 

[mjr]

I was thinking more of ones that are on the road, but properly protected by kerbs, like the new CSH in London. Pedestrians won't use that, and it's proper protected space for cycling.

I'm pretty sure you can search and find some grumbling on here about people walking, jogging and probably more in the new London CSHs. Pedestrians are not banned from them AFAIK.

Ones that are alongside roads are never as convenient, because you need to slow down to little more than walking pace to make them usable, and they invariably make you cede priority at side roads.

Done well, they can be more convenient than roads if they bypass traffic lights, don't cede priority at side roads, have countdown timers for the few remaining lights (so you know whether to speed up or slow down to avoid stopping) and so on. Of course, it's hard to think of a good example in this country - we seem to excel at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with thoughtless little touches.

 

[Dan B]

I'm pretty sure you can search and find some grumbling on here about people walking, jogging and probably more in the new London CSHs. Pedestrians are not banned from them AFAIK.

Wouldn't matter if they were banned, unless it's going to be policed which it obviously isn't. I would hazard a guess that the design cues (separate kerbs, signage etc) make occupation by pedestrians less likely than a shared-use pavement path in the same place would be

 

[DaveReading]

I'm not even quick, but even I waft along at 15+ on the flat. By the time your bell can be heard, head swivelled to pinpoint and action taken, I'm down to walking pace.

Quite so.

In fact it's a pity the OP didn't stick around for long enough to have his attention drawn to this:

http://webarchive.nationalarchives....e/2004/ltnwc/annexdcodeofconductnoticefor1688

Local Transport Notes on Walking and Cycling - Annex D: Code of Conduct Notice for Cyclists

Ride at a sensible speed for the situation and ensure you can stop in time. As a general rule, if you want to cycle quickly, say in excess of 18 mph/30 kph, then you should be riding on the road.

 

[Dan B]

Speaking personally I don't see any reason to get more irate about runners in a cycle lane than I would about anyone cycling at running pace. Last time I was in a CSH I saw a roller-skier go past

 

[steveindenmark]

Bells and/or shouting is not an answer in itself though. I'm not even quick, but even I waft along at 15+ on the flat. By the time your bell can be heard, head swivelled to pinpoint and action taken, I'm down to walking pace. Do this every few hundred yards, and yes, I'm back on the road.

Thats why they put brakes on bikes.