Veg growers what should I put here ?

[mudsticks]

Last Monday I went to my local retail nursery and purchased potting compost, grow bags (I use the peat in containers for tomatoes in my glasshouse), the veg transplants they had available as it's early and tried to buy seed. ALL the veg seed had been wiped out over the weekend so I had to go to B&Q. I don't have the varieties I usually grow but at least have all I need though I did forget spinach beet.

Lockdown the next day so I'm very glad to have had the foresight to do this.

A tip for tomato growers if using containers. Get a two litre plastic bottle, make 3 holes in the cap with something like a bradle, cut off the bottle bottom. Insert a 9/10cm pot in your compost and then place the bottle in cap downwards. Fill with water or feed as necessary. This will allow slow release of the water in to your compost and avoid wasted water draining straight through. It also allows one to regulate the amount of water or feed given to the plants - overwatering or erratic watering is the single biggest issue with growing tomatoes at an amateur level. The cap will block from time to time, remove the bottle and cap, was thoroughly and replace. Tomatoes need a regulated constant amount of water - not drought and flood.

I use two bottles per container as I have two plants in each. The containers are approximately 90cm in length

If I was a proper profiteer, I'd be selling off surplus spinach beet seed, at overinflated prices..

Try 'Moles' seeds, online they're pretty good.. And their gold seed packets make you feel special

 

[randynewmanscat]

I don't know if it was posted on here, but this is as good a way as any to deter the sneaky little slimers...

Yes this works, I recommend it if you have a gravel board edging around a plot or you use raised beds. Using a stapler to attach the wires takes the drudge out and el cheapo battery boxes and connectors with leads can be had from your favourite China based vendors.
I don't have a link for the wire, don't buy the coated wire the enamel is an insulation of the sort you might have on a motor winding. Bare nickel plated copper is the cheapest in whatever cross section is cheap and durable enough.
The battery will last all year and some of the next if its brought indoors in autumn, very cheap to run.
Is mollusc control by electric fence OTT? No, its cheaper and less harmful than slug pellets and you can feel smug in the knowledge that you don't have to remind yourself to patrol the salad bed of an evening.

 

[Notafettler]

I suspect it's to late to start growing Tom's. I always start with seed. Going for stuff you won't get in the supermarkets.
Super maramande
Yellow stuffer
Shirley (given during lockdown by garden centre)
Tumbling Tom's about 20 plants. I will use the latter for dehydrating and then put them in various oils with herbs garlic and a few with hot peppers. I then put the jars in the cupboard for least one year before giving them out as pressies.

I think sweet peppers have a chance against a south facing wall. Otherwise a greenhouse.

Lettuce is actually quite expensive in the supermarkets another thing you should take into account when growing.
Celtuce the leaves for salad, stalk for frying.
Some curly very fragile ones which dont die out in the winter. Cant remember the name of hand
Little gem one seed at least 3 heads of lettuce. Cut the first head off , leave an inch or two of stalk you will get at least 2 more heads normally 3. Quicker than starting another seed. They will keep on "coppicing" but the heads are much smaller.
In theory you should grow nothing that is cheap in the supermarkets. So carrots are out. Its okay to grow stuff which is significantly better flavour if very fresh. So carrots are back in. Try something different though, like Parisian market carrots. Round suitable for stony ground picked when small multiple crops.
Onions are a pain if grown from seed, like watching cricket in slow motion. If grown from sets you will end up with a lots. £1.50 from Wilkos for 184. Yes I did count them. I have decided to go for shallots as you just keep a few back for next years crop. Plus you plant in the autumn on empty ground and you start harvesting now giving you extra space.
Interplanting if short on space or even if not. The one plant shouldn't shade the other. Tomatoes indeterminate (not Bush which are determinates) with lettuce inbetweener. Helps keeps the weeds down. Slugs can be reduced with beer traps. The beer supplied by pub drip trays. Note only 30% fall in and drown although that doesn't mean you won't get them the next night or the night after that. Metaldehyde based slug pellets will be banned from next year only farmers can get them at the moment as garden centres are not selling them anymore. They are extremely effective. Supposedly at killing other wild life as well.

 

[Notafettler]

PS Ebay is very good for seeds twice the amount for half the price. Premier seeds is who I normally use as do a lot of growers on allotment gardenering forum. They don't come in pictorial packaging just the name of the seeds no instructions.

 

[PaulSB]

Just a quick comment. Up thread I mentioned I had to buy most of this year's seed from B&Q as the retail nursery I use had been wiped out the weekend before lockdown. I mainly bought from their Verve range most of which is unamed varieties.

Germination and plant growth has been good but what I'll call "eatability" is poor. Lacking in flavour and tough in some instances. I won't be back there in 2021 and will be buying seed much earlier than I have previously.

Having been a B&Q plant supplier I know how stringent the quality criteria are. I'm very surprised to find the end result of the Verve seed range is unacceptable. My guess is the seed supplier has based everything around germ rate, seed count etc. to achieve a targeted price and the number one characteristic, produce flavour and overall quality, has been ignored.

 

[mudsticks]

Just a quick comment. Up thread I mentioned I had to buy most of this year's seed from B&Q as the retail nursery I use had been wiped out the weekend before lockdown. I mainly bought from their Verve range most of which is unamed varieties.

Germination and plant growth has been good but what I'll call "eatability" is poor. Lacking in flavour and tough in some instances. I won't be back there in 2021 and will be buying seed much earlier than I have previously.

Having been a B&Q plant supplier I know how stringent the quality criteria are. I'm very surprised to find the end result of the Verve seed range is unacceptable. My guess is the seed supplier has based everything around germ rate, seed count etc. to achieve a targeted price and the number one characteristic, produce flavour and overall quality, has been ignored.

In many of the more commercial veg seed catalogues I use, a variety will be promoted as 'Good for plant sales'
ie for growing eye catching POS veg plants to sell on to domestic buyers.

I'm guessing similar is used for generic seed sales, the less discerning buyer won't know the difference.

Many of the varieties available to commercial growers prioritise yield, and packhorse longevity, flavour and nutrition come a long way down the list.

My customers who get their veg harvested and supplied on the same day, are often initially blown away by the complex flavours and moreishness of the veg they get.

Then they get addicted, and can't leave the Valley, for more than a fortnight at a time.

If I have to resort to buying supermarket veg, or even when eating 'restaurant' veg I can see why so many people don't like vegetables.. They often taste of nothing, or perhaps faintly of diesel.

Try the Real Seed Company, or Vital Veg, or join the Seed Cooperative, if you want more interesting, and flavourful varieties for home growing.

You'll also be supporting seed sovereignty, and smaller producers in this country

 

[Notafettler]

Better still use premier seeds on there Ebay site or there non Ebay site. Fantastic choice, for instance 80 different tomato plant seeds. And quite often twice the amount for half price. Particularly useful if your allotment grower. IE share seeds. There is more than one seller on Ebay that sells dirt cheap VERY reliable seeds. A lot of there seeds are 99p free postage. I wanted some little gems but they only had 10grams at £1.09 plus 0.65 postage expensive for them....if you ignore the fact that you are getting 8000 plus seeds and you get at least 3 plants of each seed!! Struggled to give enough away.
Example https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LETTUCE-...&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&redirect=mobile
So don't over pay by buying from the mainstream Thompson etc.
As a cheap non internet alternative Wilkos is always reasonable priced. End of season some of there shops sells seeds at a penny a packet. 10p in my small Wilkos. Robbers!

 

[PaulSB]

@mudsticks I spent my entire career in commercial ornamental horticulture so I'm very familiar with your comments though in relation to garden plants. "Good for plant sales" was frequently to describe many bedding plants - my final 22 years was in this sector. We all knew what it meant but rarely discussed it!!!

At one time I worked with a business producing supermarket tomatoes and bedding. Every Friday we grabbed a kilo of toms to take home before they hit the chillers - friends were always astonished and this was just with varieties bred for appearance and productivity let alone flavour!

I'll investigate your seed supplier suggestions for next year. My allotment is producing well but I'm disappointed by the lack of flavour this year - something I'm not used to!!

 

[mudsticks]

@mudsticks I spent my entire career in commercial ornamental horticulture so I'm very familiar with your comments though in relation to garden plants. "Good for plant sales" was frequently to describe many bedding plants - my final 22 years was in this sector. We all knew what it meant but rarely discussed it!!!

At one time I worked with a business producing supermarket tomatoes and bedding. Every Friday we grabbed a kilo of toms to take home before they hit the chillers - friends were always astonished and this was just with varieties bred for appearance and productivity let alone flavour!

I'll investigate your seed supplier suggestions for next year. My allotment is producing well but I'm disappointed by the lack of flavour this year - something I'm not used to!!

I forgot to mention "Seeds of Italy" their stuff is very good, the Italians won't put up with 'insipid' flavours and they do a very generous packet size, aimed at the domestic market.
But plenty enough even for commercial scale if you're growing several different varieties.

A long established family business, that buys direct from seed producers there.

Plus lots of wierd and wonderful things not available over here, but which mostly do fine in our climate, with a bit of protection.

In fact I believe the aubergine in my avatar was from one of their seeds.

This years are just starting to crop.. I can't resist the ones with the 'noses' 🍆

 

[Notafettler]

.. They often taste of nothing, or perhaps faintly of diesel.

Seriously are you accusing them of spraying with diesel? If yes how do you know what diesel taste like?

 

[mudsticks]

Seriously are you accusing them of spraying with diesel? If yes how do you know what diesel taste like?

No I'm not accusing them of spraying with diesel, conventionally grown crops are often sprayed with many other things though, pesticides, fungicides, fertilisers and pre emergant herbicides, though.

The taste can be reminiscent of something like diesel though .

I know what diesel tastes like from having done (more than) my fair share of fuel tank syphoning, and just general splashback when refuelling farm machinery.

 

[PaulSB]

@mudsticks I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. Last year my garlic crop, all late autumn planted, was a disappointment with small bulbs mainly due I feel to winter 2018/19 being mild.

This year I decided to split the crop between autumn and spring varieties. You can guess what's happened!! I have a large crop, far more than we can eat. Probably 200 bulbs most of which are 3 times the size of supermarket product. It's been a good trial as the autumn crop has made significantly heavier bulbs.

Some thoughts while I was cleaning up for storage:

1. Can I chill autumn bulbs prior to planting to simulate a cold winter?
2. How viable is it to grow next year's crop from this year's bulbs? The variety is Provence Wight and quality every bit as good as that which I buy from Marshalls. I usually buy new bulbs each year.
3. Finally just out of interest. Are flies especially attracted to garlic? I've had my autumn crop drying under glass for three weeks and there are always flies. I took the bulbs out and 30 minutes later no flies. A couple of hours later I put the spring bulbs I lifted today in the glasshouse and flies reappeared within minutes. Weird.

 

[mudsticks]

@mudsticks I'd be interested in your thoughts on this. Last year my garlic crop, all late autumn planted, was a disappointment with small bulbs mainly due I feel to winter 2018/19 being mild.

This year I decided to split the crop between autumn and spring varieties. You can guess what's happened!! I have a large crop, far more than we can eat. Probably 200 bulbs most of which are 3 times the size of supermarket product. It's been a good trial as the autumn crop has made significantly heavier bulbs.

Some thoughts while I was cleaning up for storage:

1. Can I chill autumn bulbs prior to planting to simulate a cold winter?
2. How viable is it to grow next year's crop from this year's bulbs? The variety is Provence Wight and quality every bit as good as that which I buy from Marshalls. I usually buy new bulbs each year.
3. Finally just out of interest. Are flies especially attracted to garlic? I've had my autumn crop drying under glass for three weeks and there are always flies. I took the bulbs out and 30 minutes later no flies. A couple of hours later I put the spring bulbs I lifted today in the glasshouse and flies reappeared within minutes. Weird.

Garlic is something I have variable success with here, usually because of keeping it weed free over the long growing period..
As you know it doesn't cast much shade, to out compete the weds

And if you mulch it thickly, with straw or whatever, the there's a chance the cold won't penetrate the soil to cause the division into cloves.

I'm not an expert in artificially pre conditioning with cold, but now you've piqued my interest I might see what my growers group say.

I'd have thought reusing cloves for next years seed, if it seems disease free would be fine.

Although it's viruses that are the problem, which perhaps wouldn't show up in storage - rots would become apparent fairly soon.

Of course the hard bit will be saving those juiciest cloves for next years seed, when you just want to gobble them up.

Nowadays I usually sell most of the overwintered garlic I grow 'wet' as its more a novelty..
The return on storage or dried garlic, just isn't there.

There's no way it can compete price wise with the Chinese imported stuff, I only grow enough storage stuff for domestic use.

Regarding the flies, yes I've had that too.

Your initial suspicion is that something is rotting, or gone bad in there.

Turns out flies just like garlic -

Have you tried elephant garlic?

Looks like ordinary stuff only four times as huge.
Not so pungent, but really nice roasted as whole heads

 

[Notafettler]

All mine are from the previous years crop. Can't see any point in continually buying new seed and the same with shallots. Nice to be self sufficient in something. I don't generally save to eat, I just mince and store in oil. I don't use it in cooking I just like sniffing it.

 

[PaulSB]

@mudsticks I've done a bit of reading around and it seems chilling garlic bulbs prior to planting is widespread in warm climates - hardly surprising when one thinks about it. In the UK we need two months of 0-10C to break vernalization. The period of artificial chilling seems to be 30-60 days. I did learn something else - it seems the longer one can keep the soil cool the larger the bulb and cloves will be.

Your comment re mulching made me realise the stupid error I made in 2018. I got a source of spent hops in autumn 2018. Winter 2018/19 I mulched the garlic bed after planting - nicely insulating the cloves! Never gave it a thought. This year I didn't mulch till spring when of course growth had started.

Never tried elephant garlic though have thought of it from time to time. I'm only growing half a bed of garlic in 2021 so may pop some in to the extra space available.