Visiting Thorn - Thinking of a New Raven - Any tips

[ankaradan]

Just getting round to buying a new bike and have a fancy for a "New Thorn Raven".
I am visiting them on Monday 4th Feb 2013. Any Tips??
I plan to do the LEJOG (mainly B&B's or YHA) and wondered if any members could share some tips.

• Is it the right bike?
• What goodies should I add (dynamo ??)
• Luggage ( or use existing TOPEAK that I have )
• Tyres?
• Extra strong Rims (Andra 30 CSS 32h costing £85 extra ) worth it?

Any other suggestions/ bikes would be helpful in me decision making, I am quite new to this field having only completed Hadrian’s Cycle Way.

Yes, me too. I'm attracted by the idea of the low maintenance of the rohloff hub; I seem to be forever fiddling with my deraileurs to get them to change smoothly; mind you, they are 18 years old. I also want something that will stand up to touring on the rough back roads here. My main concern is what it would be like to ride unladen.

 

[vernon]

Yes, me too. I'm attracted by the idea of the low maintenance of the rohloff hub; I seem to be forever fiddling with my deraileurs to get them to change smoothly; mind you, they are 18 years old. I also want something that will stand up to touring on the rough back roads here. My main concern is what it would be like to ride unladen.

I can not comment upon the Thorn but my Woodrup Chimera is a similar bike. The Rohloff hub and belt drive combination has been a fit and forget experience. I've not had to do anything to the transmission in the past 1400 miles of fully laden touring, audaxing and general leisure riding. Unladen my bike is rock steady and is not unbalanced by potholes and rough surfaces which inspires confidence.

 

[ufkacbln]

The problem with my Thorn Nomad is that it is boring!

It just travels, no quirks in handling, no problems with shimmy when overladen at the front, predictable handling when laden or just a bar bag

In other words just what I wanted

 

[mickle]

I've a mental list longer than my arm of bikes I'd buy before a Thorn - and we've got a Thorn Tandem in the garage. I've seen a couple of their bikes which I'd have taken back to the shop for a refund so poor was the quality of frame assembly. On a frame which one of my customers bought they'd used a 2inch nail as a pump peg bridge. He wasn't happy. And our tandem long ago lost most of the powder coating from around both bottom brackets.

With so many outstanding UK frame builders - from Argos to Woodrup, you're spoilt for choice. And that's before you start looking around at some of the beauties coming out of foreign companies like Tout Terrain and Norwid.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

We have 2 Rohloff equipped Thorn Nomad mk II's here. love them, reliable, rock steady, overkill for the UK, yes, but we purchased them for a world tour and that is what they are suitable for.

We went with the Andora CSS rims for the stopping powder, nothing to do with strength, though we needed that as well. The rim upgrade is worth over penny in my book and the stopping ability is phenomanal, best I have on any bike without disc brakes.
The Rohloff hubs have been (almost) faultless and so much easier to look after than derailuer gears. We love the fact that you can change gear whilst stationary and it happens, and that all the gears are sequential. Parts last much longer (£4.49 chain lasted 14,500km for example)
We got the SON 28 dynamo's at the time of purchase along with the a light and went with the Thorn racks (if you don't go with the Thorn racks you need a spacer or converter or something for the different sized mounting holes IIRC - something to ask about if you don't get the Thorn racks - we needed super strong for a world tour and the racks are exactly what we wanted and needed, can't fault them).

Cubebelin is spot on when he says they are 'boring'... they have been almost completely 100% reliable (we had a few spoke breakages on one rear wheel early on in our tour, and some water issues freezing the gear changer later on due to us failing to see a hole in a cable sheath than caused cables to rust & freeze in freezing weather) but they are stunning bikes and everytime we get back on them, we know why we enjoyed our (aborted) world tour so much, comfort, handling, reliablity to name a few reasons. We have ridden them fully laden (4 panniers & rackback, barbag etc) downhill at speeds over 60kph and never had issues with them.

We used the 100 day option for a couple of parts, (we paid for the new part and returned the old one, they refunded the money).

We spent several hours in the shop the first day (don't expect it to look like a like shop, it does not, it looks more like an insurance
agents!) and talked over various things with the mechanic, looks at various bikes in and around the shop and tried various parts, sizes etc whilst there. We collected our bikes 2 weeks later (quite season) and spent another couple of hours talking with them, getting them set up how we wanted and covering maintenace. they were quite happy to take us through what was needed in the shop and my OH reomved various parts and put them back on under supervision etc so everyone was happy we were ready for our world tour and knew how to look after the bikes. Part of the cost of the bikes includes the ability to get technical support (M-F) when you need it. We used this a couple of times, calling them from Norway (warranty replacement on a failed dynamo front light) Serbia (frozen gear changer cables) and from Greece (new gear selector as a result of frozen cables) speaking with a mechanic to clarify what was 'wrong' and what needed etc. each and every time we found them exceptionally helpful and very knowledgable.

 

[MacB]

I suppose an easy starting point is budget, work out how much you can afford, how much what you'd like would cost and then see how big the gap is, if at all. I've looked at Thorn several times but mainly from the rohloff perspective other aspects of their offerings leave me cold and especially their attitude. They did nearly win me over with the Mercury, 700c, finally introducing disc brakes and a decent length head tube but there were still too many compromises required from my end.

But a lot depends on how involved you want to get in the selection, build and ongoing maintenance side of things. Despite Thorn jarring with me a bit, the overwhelming impression is one of top notch customer service and support which comes at a price and with quirks. If those quirks aren't an issue for you then I'd rate them as a first class choice, if they are then maybe look elsewhere.

Re the bike selection itself then I have some personal preferences which also seem to have coincided with the general direction manufacturers have headed in recently. So disc brakes, 700c/29" wheels/tyres, big clearances - if you look around US sites you'll see the term gravel grinder used to describe a lot of these. I'm not sure how relevant some of the previous preferences around 26" wheels for touring will remain, ie availability of parts and strength of wheels.

At one point I did envisage 'one bike to rule them all' and I sort of went ahead with that anyway but I also decided that more than one bike was the perfect solution. So I ended up with 2 rohloff bikes:-

allrounder - custom Ti frame with adjustable rohloff dropouts for chain tension, it's almost a 29er frame but with a long headtube and has Surly disc trucker forks for the front end. It's a flat bar build and the geometry is almost identical to that of the Thorn Mercury, though the tubing is a bit beefier. It has clearances for up to a 700x45 tyre but 700x42 with guards and runs a SON Delux hub up front. This bike is permanently shod with mudguards, rear rack, dynamo lights etc. The main reason for choosing a Ti frame was the anti corrosion as this is also my bad weather bike and gets shod with studded tyres in the Winter.

29er - custom steel frame with the same adjustable rohloff dropouts, this has a newer 36h rohloff and the frame also has mounts for rack and guards etc. If I ever wanted to rough tour then I'd just move the dynamo setup to this bike and probably put on rigid steel 29er forks.

Both of these bikes, and my road bike, use the same rims so wheelsets can be mixed and matched if need be, I also included derailleur capability in the two custom rohloff frames just in case. We have 3 more 29ers in the garage all of which have slotted or adjustable dropouts and are hub gear or derailleur friendly. As well as all 6 bikes sharing the same wheel size they also all run Avid BB7 cable disc brakes. I don't mind doing bike maintenance but it's a lot easier when all the bikes share so many parts.

 

[Yellow7]

With so many outstanding UK frame builders - from Argos to Woodrup, you're spoilt for choice.

I opted for an Argos frame, nothing for Gary was an issue, unlike a few other frame makers that wanted to simply sell frames they already had.

Although I was never happy with the sliding drop-out or eccentric bottom-bracket method of chain tensioning, from an engineers point of view both are indirect ways of tensioning, so I used the Surly chain tensioner & had my own drop-outs laser cut from 6mm stainless (also with a derailier hanger just in case!) of which Argos Cycles were more than happy to fit. Never had a problem with my Rohloff in 17,000 miles, on one chain-ring (Surly), one chain (KMC) & three sprockets.

 

[MacB]

Although I was never happy with the sliding drop-out or eccentric bottom-bracket method of chain tensioning, from an engineers point of view both are indirect ways of tensioning, so I used the Surly chain tensioner & had my own drop-outs laser cut from 6mm stainless (also with a derailier hanger just in case!)

My first go around with a custom frame I ended up going the same way and opted for normal dropouts, I did have a mini EBB for a while but preferred the idea of a chain tensioner in the end. Then the various swing style dropouts started to hit the market and they appealed a great deal more. That first frame is now the road bike with derailleurs and the next custom frame had Paragon Machineworks' variation of a swing dropout called a Rocker.

So far these dropouts have been rock solid and, unlike sliders, they allow for standard rack/guard fittings as the disc caliper sits between the stays. The engineering blurb also claims that chainstay orientated calipers remove the need for a brace between the stays. There are several production bikes using this or similar dropout styles now and more and more frame builders are offering them as an option. As the dropout itself is an add on part you no longer have to decide on configuration at point of build. I have non drive dropout inserts for Rohloff and non Rohloff and drive side ones with/without mech hangers.

 

[Bodhbh]

We spent several hours in the shop the first day (don't expect it to look like a like shop, it does not, it looks more like an insurance agents!)

You're right it is an odd looking place. We were passing thru Bridgewater on route to Exmoor, and it dawned on me the Thorn shop was in town and we decided to have a nose. It turned out it was closed, but there was nothing in the window to indicate it was a bike shop - it looked like an empty car show room - plenty of space but nothing there. Maybe they remove all the stock?

 

[mmmmartin]

take with you the luggage you will be carrying on your planned tour, and cary it on your test ride, and think about the type of touring you might be doing in six years - so will you want a light bike to carry a couple of small panniers or a heavier bike to carry front panniers, rear panniers, tent, etc etc, wine, water etc etc. A cheaper option might be to buy a light bike for unladen touring, and a heavier bike for camping. i have a Thorn audax Mk 3 for long distance and lighter use and an old secondhand Dawes Galaxy for cycle camping - mind you, when fully loaded the Galaxy wobbles alarmingly and the ancient canti brakes are useless, which makes me eye the Thorn Sherpa bikes - stronger and with V brakes - currently on offer. The Thorn 100 day money back guarantee is excellent. Then again, if you plan to be flying with your bike a lot, instead of a lovely shiny Thorn, you might want to spend a few hundred quid on a Galaxy from Ebay so when it arrives in the baggage hall damaged, you haven't lost the thick end of two grand..........

oh - and IMO dynamos offered by Thorn are very expensive - the £200 for the SON hub plus the £70 for the light is a lot of money, and although I ride on audax and overnight events in the dark all the time, when touring I find riding in the dark a very rare occurence. So I think a dynohub might not be worth it.

But I would deffo buy a few spokes when the bike is made up - tape them to the crossbar and it might save yu a lot of trouble one day. (DAHIKT)

 

[Brains]

You're right it is an odd looking place. We were passing thru Bridgewater on route to Exmoor, and it dawned on me the Thorn shop was in town and we decided to have a nose. It turned out it was closed, but there was nothing in the window to indicate it was a bike shop - it looked like an empty car show room - plenty of space but nothing there. Maybe they remove all the stock?

It's all out the back. They live in series of old stables with a central yard, so frames are in one stall, wheels in another

 

[Spinney]

OH went to Thorn when he was looking for a new bike. In spite of having effectively arranged an appointment, there had been no effort to get the bike he was interested in at the right size in the showroom so he could try it. Don't know if we were expecting too much, but when you've travelled a fair distance it's a bit disappointing. There would have been little point in a test ride on anything else.

 

[Skipper9999]

I have 650 mile round trip so I hope I'm not as disappointed ??

Wish I could also find a price list for Woodrup chimera belt drive !!

 

[MacB]

I have 650 mile round trip so I hope I'm not as disappointed ??

Wish I could also find a price list for Woodrup chimera belt drive !!

if it helps then I would cost all the bits at about £2.4k which would cover everything but the frame including a rohloff/SON dynamo wheelset with high end lights and using mid to high end components, Hope, Thomson, Brooks and so on - this would be everything, guards, racks, seatpost, saddle, bars, grips, etc, etc, so an on the road and ready to go build price. Obviously this cost could be raised or lowered depending on component choice.

A custom frame to suit the above is going to run somewhere from £700 to £2.5k depending on your choice of builder, material and finish. For example a Shand Cycles custom frame in steel would cost you about £1.3k and their complete rohloff builds come in around the £3.5k mark.

 

[MacB]

This is the one I was looking at:-

http://www.shandcycles.com/frames/allroad-plus/stoater-plus-overview/

has the capacity for belt drive etc and I don't think the price would be much different, if at all, to get a more tour orientated frame built.