Was this bus driver bad?

[nethalus]

People don't have to be visually impared not to see something. It's like when I was doing the Smith System course at work, they did demonstrations to show how when focused on something your field of vision becomes very narrow. Movement, light and bright colours seen moving in the corner of the eye can attract your attention. This was also why we were advised when sat at traffic lights or waiting in traffic to keep the eyes moving as much as possible to avoid losing concentration by just focusing on one object, ie the red traffic light or the brake light of the vehicle in front. And also so that you can see as much as possible of what's going on around.
It is because people often focus on what's happening directly ahead rather than what's going on elsewhere that motorcyclists are advised to have headlights on at all times. The light attracts the eyes of other road users and they can see the motorcyclist. It's the same with bright colours, you are more likely to notice someone with a hi viz on than someone wearing a dark brown coat. So it makes sense to make sure you can be seen by others, even if you think it's nampy pampy over zealous saftey spoil sports just out to ruin your fun!!

 

[Cab]

While its easier to see someone in high viz if its light, its still inexcusable to miss someone when its light just 'cos they're wearing the wrong colour. No one would ever dare use that excuse with a motorcyclist, a car or a pedestrian.

 

[nethalus]

Oh and motorcyclists shouldn't wear black then, and while we're at it lets ban black cars because how can you possibly see them? Nothing personal nethy but putting the onus on vulnerable road users to wear horrendous day-glo we might as well paint the whole world day-glo because how the hell can anyone be expected to see, for example, a grey lampost. The more people who wear fluorescent the more it becomes expected and the less motorists will actually look. SMIDSY = SMIDL.

I had this once, a guy driving a Chavalier pulled straight out in front of me as I was descending a hill at speed. I was wearing black. Rather than apologise for his illegal and life threatening manoeuvre he had a go at me for wearing black. Until I am compelled by law to wear flouro pink reflective water-wings and wrap my arse in tinsel I will wear black whilst riding my bike.

(

You can wear what the hell you like when riding your bike, I just think it's common sense to make sure you are seen. There are people out there who have admited they didn't see a 14.5ft tall 8ft wide double decker bus and if they can't see that what chance has a small, narrow cyclist got??
It's to make the buses more visable to road users that buses have headlights on at all times. As for black cars, they are larger than a cyclist, who can disapear for longer in a blind spot, or be hidden by other objects.
I've seen many a time how hi viz is better than just wearing a black or brown coat. You can spot the hi viz wearing cyclist from far further away and prepare for them well in advance.

 

[Cab]

I've seen many a time how hi viz is better than just wearing a black or brown coat. You can spot the hi viz wearing cyclist from far further away and prepare for them well in advance.

Your line of sight is no further. That you notice them more easily further away does not make them visible from further.

Really, if its light and they're there you should see them. I see the argument for cyclists wearing bright clothes, but thats just no excuse not to see them.

 

[nethalus]

While its easier to see someone in high viz if its light, its still inexcusable to miss someone when its light just 'cos they're wearing the wrong colour. No one would ever dare use that excuse with a motorcyclist, a car or a pedestrian.

People do miss seeing pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclsts and cars though. That's why accidents happen. People are not paying attention at a critical moment and bang!!

 

[nethalus]

Your line of sight is no further. That you notice them more easily further away does not make them visible from further.

Really, if its light and they're there you should see them. I see the argument for cyclists wearing bright clothes, but thats just no excuse not to see them.

So you'd rather people went around wearing dark clothes and possibly not be seen early enough by others? And here's someone who claims to know all about road saftey eh????
I'm not saying people have to wear hi viz clothing I just find that you can see them better against the back ground. I honestly don't know what your problem is with that?

 

[Twenty Inch]

Ha, ha, Cab, you nearly got me! I thought you were making a serious point just to wind Nethalus up there.

 

[gambatte]

So by taking the argument 1 step further, you're saying al pedestrians ought to wear hi-viz as well?

 

[col]

This debate has nothing to do with the origional post at all, we all know what your saying is right,why make an argument out of it.

 

[Cab]

People do miss seeing pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclsts and cars though. That's why accidents happen. People are not paying attention at a critical moment and bang!!

I agree. People not paying attention does cause accidents. Odd that so many people seem willing to place part of the blame for that on the cyclist for not wearing dayglo clothing when its the fault of the person not paying attention.

 

[Cab]

So you'd rather people went around wearing dark clothes and possibly not be seen early enough by others?

I neither said nor implied that. Why do you infer that?

And here's someone who claims to know all about road saftey eh????

I've claimed no such thing.

I'm not saying people have to wear hi viz clothing I just find that you can see them better against the back ground. I honestly don't know what your problem is with that?

The problem is that you've only thought through about half of this.

I wear high viz stuff because on balance I think its a good thing. But its a fine balance; you're more visible, but strangely it seems to wind up motorists even more. I get more aggro when wearing such kit, I get more attempted bad overtakes. I get faster overtakes. I don't believe that in most town streets I'm more visible, I think that what restricts how far away I can be seen is the layout of the street I'm on, other traffic, etc. I suspect that high viz is really only useful to a cyclist if he's also willing to be really rather assertive on the roads, you have to really claim your space if your clothing encourages bad behaviour from motorists (theres been a little research done on this, I believe).

And, in all honesty, if I'm in a good road position then I'm every bit as visible as any other vehicle. I don't find that I get given more road space or less vehicles pulling out in front if I'm wearing high viz, I find that the single biggest factor in that is claiming a good road position where I'm right in the motorists line of sight. It is my experience that bright colours in secondary position gets you worse treatment than ordinary clothing in primary; you might be more visible but, oddly, they hate you for it.

So I'm always highly skeptical when I hear any motorist telling me that high viz helps them see a cyclist. Yeah, maybe, but not only would you see those cyclists if they were in the right road position anyway, but even if they are not it is your absolute duty to see them whether they're wearing high viz or not.

 

[tdr1nka]

Did you get regularly run over by visually impared drivers and smash your brains out before you saw sense then Tdr1nka?

In fact I didn't, I thought that after 10 years or so of some bloody amazing luck and excellent road skills I thought it best not to chance that luck any further.

Thanks for the concern tho.....


T x

 

[mickle]

People don't have to be visually impared not to see something. It's like when I was doing the Smith System course at work, they did demonstrations to show how when focused on something your field of vision becomes very narrow. Movement, light and bright colours seen moving in the corner of the eye can attract your attention. This was also why we were advised when sat at traffic lights or waiting in traffic to keep the eyes moving as much as possible to avoid losing concentration by just focusing on one object, ie the red traffic light or the brake light of the vehicle in front. And also so that you can see as much as possible of what's going on around.
It is because people often focus on what's happening directly ahead rather than what's going on elsewhere that motorcyclists are advised to have headlights on at all times. The light attracts the eyes of other road users and they can see the motorcyclist. It's the same with bright colours, you are more likely to notice someone with a hi viz on than someone wearing a dark brown coat. So it makes sense to make sure you can be seen by others, even if you think it's nampy pampy over zealous saftey spoil sports just out to ruin your fun!!

May I refer the right honourable member to my earlier post.

SMIDSY = SMIDL.

We all have a duty of care to all other road users irrespective of what colour outfit they might be wearing.

 

[Brock]

In fact I didn't, I thought that after 10 years or so of some bloody amazing luck and excellent road skills I thought it best not to chance that luck any further.

Thanks for the concern tho.....


T x

I see.. I just wondered if after ten years, there was a particular incident or moment of clarity where you suddenly realised you needed different coloured clothes and a funny hat.

 

[gambatte]

So by taking the argument 1 step further, you're saying al pedestrians ought to wear hi-viz as well?

Netty, you didn't answer. Is the answer 'yes'? if not, why not?