Was this bus driver bad?

[col]

The problem is that you don't need to be seen more and from further away. Normal clothes are just fine for being seen in time. You'll not be seen if the driver is not looking, and that's the problem that HiViz can't solve.

If some one isnt looking,then no,it wont help,but people look where they expect something to be,or seem to,so if your noticed from further away,then its not as much of a surprise when you become closer,and the, i didnt realise he was there thing is less likely ?
Being more noticeable in the corner of someones eye,is i think,an aid to our safety.

 

[domtyler]

I believe this is incorrect. I saw a recent study on how DRL (daytime running lights) actually brought an increase in accident rates to motorcyclists.

The point was made from the perspective of the bus company I think you'll find Mikey. By employing DRL their buses are involved in fewer accidents, albeit at the expense of vulnerable road users, cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians.

 

[domd1979]

The further away you can be seen the better. It gives drivers the chance to slow down in plenty of time, and more time to anticipate when they might be able to overtake safely. If I'm driving at night, and encounter a cyclist, the first thing I see is hi-viz if they're wearing it, before any lights they might have on their bike.

The problem is that you don't need to be seen more and from further away. Normal clothes are just fine for being seen in time. You'll not be seen if the driver is not looking, and that's the problem that HiViz can't solve.

 

[BentMikey]

The problem with that, Col, is that hiviz isn't called urban camouflage for nothing. It's so ubiquitous that people just ignore it in the corner of their eye, and also directly in their eye.

Something really unusual, like my recumbent, always gets looked at. It's far more effective than HiViz, but only because it's so unusual. If everyone rode recumbents, I wouldn't be impressed!

 

[domd1979]

Really?

albeit at the expense of vulnerable road users, cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians.

 

[BentMikey]

The point was made from the perspective of the bus company I think you'll find Mikey. By employing DRL their buses are involved in fewer accidents, albeit at the expense of vulnerable road users, cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians.

You misunderstand I think. This was in relation to motorcyclists with DRL experiencing more accidents, i.e. that having DRL themselves, they then had more accidents.

 

[BentMikey]

The further away you can be seen the better. It gives drivers the chance to slow down in plenty of time, and more time to anticipate when they might be able to overtake safely. If I'm driving at night, and encounter a cyclist, the first thing I see is hi-viz if they're wearing it, before any lights they might have on their bike.

There's no point in seeing someone so far away that it's long before you need to take any action. HiViz has no point when it only increases visibility in the far distance. Cyclists only need to be seen when they are approaching the interaction distance.

 

[col]

Col, you are a bus driver first and a cyclist second, by your own admission.
This is why your preference is to cycle, when you cycle, in a submissive road position. You may get less hassle, but that is a direct consequence of the fact that your positioning just means that drivers are totally oblivious to your presence on the road, you may as well not be there and they will not consider you when they perform any kind of manoeuvre. You may well feel that you are safer like this and I sincerely hope that you never come to any harm on the roads, but the evidence clearly shows that people cycling using your style are far more likely to be killed or seriously injured by a motor vehicle.

I take a good secondary,and give way to other vehicles,or faster vehicles,i dont feel any more unsafe doing this,and i have never had conflict with other road users,in fact it seems that they are more helpful,when it is obvious i a m making an effort,however small,to not slow or deter other vehicles ,while im out there.I cycled for years,years ago,in the same way,and didnt have any problems with cars or buses,and i had never driven a bus then.When you say my style,i take it you mean the way i wont take primary in certain situations?
Then i have to agree,i wont,but i will if i feel it safe and non obstructive to do so.

 

[col]

The problem with that, Col, is that hiviz isn't called urban camouflage for nothing. It's so ubiquitous that people just ignore it in the corner of their eye, and also directly in their eye.

Something really unusual, like my recumbent, always gets looked at. It's far more effective than HiViz, but only because it's so unusual. If everyone rode recumbents, I wouldn't be impressed!

A recumbent will get looked at more than a normal bike,but thats if you have been noticed in the first place.

 

[col]

There's no point in seeing someone so far away that it's long before you need to take any action. HiViz has no point when it only increases visibility in the far distance. Cyclists only need to be seen when they are approaching the interaction distance.

I dont understand your reasoning here,the sooner your noticed,it doesnt matter how far away you are,the sooner your in the drivers mind ,surely that can only be a good thing?

 

[BentMikey]

A recumbent will get looked at more than a normal bike,but thats if you have been noticed in the first place.

It also gets noticed more often in the first place, although I'd be the first to accept that that's only my anecdotal experience. I think it's something to do with the lowness, the unusual leg movement, and it generally looking like some form of predator.

 

[tdr1nka]

I wear hi-vi and I ride a recumbent, double safe!

Cab,
I have actually read the relevent info regarding the differing attitudes of drivers to cyclists wearing helmets and hi-vi and to those who are not and my opinion is that I choose to be as visible as I can be.

My safety on the road is my own responsability first and foremost, and my being able to be seen where so many others choose not to is my perogative.
Smart crack maybe but I merely tried to inject some humour to a thread that keeps getting bogged down with langiud, statistical rhetoric.

T x

 

[BentMikey]

I dont understand your reasoning here,the sooner your noticed,it doesnt matter how far away you are,the sooner your in the drivers mind ,surely that can only be a good thing?

My point is that it's a bit like noticing the moon - it might be very visible, but it's so far away it's not necessary. You only need to notice traffic and other items once they get into your interaction zone.

 

[domtyler]

You misunderstand I think. This was in relation to motorcyclists with DRL experiencing more accidents, i.e. that having DRL themselves, they then had more accidents.

Oops, sorry, thought you meant on buses.

So DRL on bikes leads to more accidents? How does that work then?

 

[col]

My point is that it's a bit like noticing the moon - it might be very visible, but it's so far away it's not necessary. You only need to notice traffic and other items once they get into your interaction zone.

Its the interaction zone you mention im having problems with BM? Where does it start from, as soon as your seen,or is there a distance you have in mind?As far as im concerned,the sooner i know whats around me,or ahead,the better.