Washing Machines

[Milkfloat]

No doubt the star ratings mean something, but how much more efficient can a new washing machine be?

Motor efficiency barely advances, so unless you believe your new electric kettle is more efficient than an old one, it's hard to see where the savings are.

I agree with something like a kettle, after all it’s only job is to boil water and broadly speaking the same energy will be required. However, for something as complicated as a washing machine there was a lot that was done and now the ratings have been completely changed again as of March 21 there is a lot more that will be done. A 90s washing machine cost more than twice to run as much as one from 2018. A lot of the savings came at a cost to the consumer, like 5 hour wash cycles. The new ratings aim to squash that by setting more realistic parameters for the ratings. Tumble dryers offer even greater savings with heat pump dryers 3 times more efficient than a condenser dryer from just a few years ago.

The big gains have probably been made already, but I am sure companies seeking an advantage will continue to innovate and Eco credentials matter more and more to the marketing guys because they matter to us.

 

[Pale Rider]

Higher capacity necessitating fewer loads, lower water usage, better wash efficiency allowing lower temperatures to be used, higher spin speeds meaning less energy to dry in a TD, if used.

Wouldn't running an old machine at lower temperature/higher spin speeds use the same energy as a new one on the same settings?

Seems to me there's some marketing bull going on here.

Soap. if not the machines which use it, is well known for that.

 

[Mo1959]

Wouldn't running an old machine at lower temperature/higher spin speeds use the same energy as a new one on the same settings?

Seems to me there's some marketing bull going on here.

Soap. if not the machines which use it, is well known for that.

Plus the old machines drew water from your hot supply too so didn't need an element in the machine to heat the water from cold like all the new machines do since they all seem to be cold feed only now.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Wouldn't running an old machine at lower temperature/higher spin speeds use the same energy as a new one on the same settings?

Seems to me there's some marketing bull going on here.

Soap. if not the machines which use it, is well known for that.

If old machines could run at a higher spin speed and could wash efficiently at a lower temperature then they would be a new machine, wouldn't they.

 

[Pale Rider]

Plus the old machines drew water from your hot supply too so didn't need an element in the machine to heat the water from cold like all the new machines do since they all seem to be cold feed only now.

There may be a reason, but cold feed makes no sense to me.

A kettle element is a lot less energy efficient at heating hot water than the house's hot water system.

could wash efficiently at a lower temperature

That is marketing claptrap.

It's soap, water and clothes chucked around in a drum.

The soap companies would say their product has improved, and it may have done over decades, but not every few months as they would have you believe.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

That is marketing claptrap.

Thank you for the insight

 

[Pale Rider]

Thank you for the insight

The insight followed, unless you can tell me there's more to it than soap, water, and a bucket - mounted sideways to make loading/unloading harder.

A source of frustration for those of who don't have built in appliances.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

The insight followed, unless you can tell me there's more to it than soap, water, and a bucket - mounted sideways to make loading/unloading harder.

A source of frustration for those of who don't have built in appliances.

Older machines usually have 40C as their lowest wash temperature. They therefore cannot wash at lower temperatures - down to 20C nowadays, in new machines, which take advantage of the capabilities of the detergents, with associated energy saving.

To wash at these lower temperatures you have to wash for much longer. Older machines do not have these lengthy programmes (over 2 hours on our machine in some cases), unlike newer ones.

That is why not claptrap.

Machines have become so involved in an efficiency 'arms race' that the A, B etc ratings are being recalibrated, having reached A+++++ or so. They are going back to A to G, with the recalibration set such that machines will be in the C-G range, so the ratings are more meaningful to the consumer.

 

[Pale Rider]

To wash at these lower temperatures you have to wash for much longer

Heating water to a lower temperature must be an energy benefit, but does that not mean the motor is running for longer, if only on pulse?

Any extra efficiency is to be welcomed, but I wonder if 40 degrees/shorter wash is a great deal more expensive on electric than 20 degrees/longer wash.

Certainly not enough to justify changing a working machine for a new one.

 

[neil_merseyside]

I much prefer a planet killing hot and short wash to an eco wash that takes a half day and leaves detergent residue to fester.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Heating water to a lower temperature must be an energy benefit, but does that not mean the motor is running for longer, if only on pulse?

Any extra efficiency is to be welcomed, but I wonder if 40 degrees/shorter wash is a great deal more expensive on electric than 20 degrees/longer wash.

Certainly not enough to justify changing a working machine for a new one.

Yes the motor runs/agitates the wash for longer - but the net effect is beneficial - because heating is more energy-hungry than turning.

The Energy Saving Trust advises consumers to keep their machines for longer in most cases, rather than scrap a machine to buy the latest and bestest - but the point I and ano were making is that by buying a premium machine that has a longer lifespan, this change, with attendant benefits, is delayed, so the equation may be more complex.

Certainly we have noticed very marked changes (improvements) in the performance of our machines (in washing terms, cannot quantify energy usage) over our 4 machines across 5 decades. In sequence, we have had Candy, Miele, Miele, and JLP own-label AEG machines during that time.

 

[presta]

I`m guessing its in water usage ?

My newest machine uses visibly less water, and the problems with it are equally obvious.

When you have heavy waterlogged clothes tumbling in the drum without enough water to hold them in suspension, the wear and tear on them is increased enormously. The result of that is that it grinds the laundry to shreds: when I take the laundry out it appears to be covered with what looks like washing powder stains, but on a closer inspection it's actually finely ground fibres of fabric. It wasn't a problem with my other machines.

I've seen environmentalists on TV complaining about the microfibres from laundry polluting water courses, and it makes me wonder if it's ever occurred to them to compare modern 'green' machines against the older generation ones.

 

[lazybloke]

There may be a reason, but cold feed makes no sense to me.

A kettle element is a lot less energy efficient at heating hot water than the house's hot water system.


That is marketing claptrap.

It's soap, water and clothes chucked around in a drum.

The soap companies would say their product has improved, and it may have done over decades, but not every few months as they would have you believe.

A kettle element is very energy efficient. It just uses an expensive fuel.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Well bit of a break through ! Popped into Currys on way home today to see what they had for taking away. Said to the lady , can’t remember when I bought my old machine but it was in here ! Off she pops with details and comes back with my order number and details !!! Yahoo!! I also registered it for the extended warranty and it’s got another 6 months ! Just been off the phone with Samsung , going to organise an engineer visit !

 

[bikingdad90]

I believe Samsung let you pay £11pcm and they either fix or replace when it breaks so might be worth considering if you want as long as possible from the Samsung?