Waterproof clothing any good?

[Dayvo]

I was looking at cycling waterproofs today. Can't decide whether to get a cycling specific one or a multi-activity one which I used to have and has mysteriously disappeared (cue X-file music).

I'm very happy with my Altura Nevis jacket (maybe because I haven't had to use it much ), and now I'm after the Altura Rush trousers to complete the set.

 

[Crackle]

IME anything designed for "multi sports" is too heavy/warm for cycling. Even many cycling specific jackets result in much sweat and, as has previously been stated, you'd be as well getting wet from the rain and just wearing something warm. Which is what I did until I got the superlites.

When I was looking at the Altura it was quite similiar to the Odin I linked to, which is not a bad old jacket better than Sprayway etc... I'll look at those superlites because I'm thinking there's no point in choosing a cycling specific unless it has some real advantages. Also, I find there's a difference between being soaked and being soaked in sweat! I did a 40 mile 'soaked' ride a week or two ago without being properly dressed for it - had to keep moving to stop myself freezing.

The other option is as you say, get wet, and get a pertex top which just keeps the wind off and so keeps the wet layers warm. Also if you wear a tight fitting base thermal to take away the air gaps, that makes a big difference - West Coast weather experience you see

 

[Noodley]

When I was looking at the Altura it was quite similiar to the Odin I linked to, which is not a bad old jacket better than Sprayway etc... I'll look at those superlites because I'm thinking there's no point in choosing a cycling specific unless it has some real advantages. Also, I find there's a difference between being soaked and being soaked in sweat! I did a 40 mile 'soaked' ride a week or two ago without being properly dressed for it - had to keep moving to stop myself freezing.

The other option is as you say, get wet, and get a pertex top which just keeps the wind off and so keeps the wet layers warm. Also if you wear a tight fitting base thermal to take away the air gaps, that makes a big difference - West Coast weather experience you see

I wore the Superlite Jacket on that ride earlier this year where I went past your place. It rained for the first 17 hours. I was sweaty on the bits you would expect, but not much more so than I would have been had it been dry and I had not been wearing the jacket. But soon got back to normal service on the flatter bits. I reckon the others were a bit annoyed at me by the end since I kept going on a bout how good it was. On the back of that ride I bought the trousers. I have only worn them once or twice but these have been on torrential rain, and have been excellent.

Altura Night Vision gets good reports as well.

 

[Blue]

sure thing, this one has pit vents and some sort of vent on the back, and hopefully the relative expense means a better performing fabric

It doesn't matter how expensive the fabric, if it's raining the sweat stays inside the garment as the rain blocks the pores.

 

[davidwalton]

Has nobody told you to take the coathanger out?

Do they still have coathangers. Thought it was just support for the weak

However, if a company won't make stuff to fit me, I can't judge it other than to put up two fingers to them back.

 

[Tynan]

It doesn't matter how expensive the fabric, if it's raining the sweat stays inside the garment as the rain blocks the pores.

that's very definitive, so it's all a lie then?

surely the vents' purpose is to let air pass through them rather than be blocked by the fabric?

 

[Crackle]

that's very definitive, so it's all a lie then?

surely the vents' purpose is to let air pass through them rather than be blocked by the fabric?

No breathables do help - try wearing a non breathable and see the difference. However breathables are inhibited by certain conditions, rain and high humidity will affect them greatly. This is also why they need to be kept clean and sprayed with a water repellent to help rain pearl off. Once the outer layer 'soaks' your breathibility decreases rapidly.

The only thing I now question is how much difference there is between different types. In theory Gore-tex is still the best but so much depends on how well the jacket is made and the breathable layer applied and what wicking materials are used etc..

Personally once a jacket is used and over a certain age I don't think the price premium of higher cost jackets make a difference as so many other factors come into play, including your care of it.

 

[davidwalton]

Well, given they are cheap at present, I have ordered an Altura Night Vision Jacket.

Reasons:-

1. It should keep out a lot of rain.
2. It is VERY bright
3. It should keep me warm

I don't commute. Don't have to therefore worry about possible smelly sweat at work for the day.

I will also have a fairing on the bike, as seen here:-

http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/streamer/index_e.html

so as long as I have enough forward motion, I should be able to stay reasonably dry'ish. At least feet should stay dry, and driving rain stopped mostly.

 

[alfablue]

It doesn't matter how expensive the fabric, if it's raining the sweat stays inside the garment as the rain blocks the pores.

No, this is wrong. Breathable waterproofs have a DWR (Durable Water Repellent) treatment so the water beads up and rolls off allowing the fabric to breath. It is not essential to waterproofing, as the fabric (like Gore Pac-Lite) is in itself waterproof, but if the DWR gets old then the breathability fails and the perception is of a leaky garment when it is in fact just sweat build up.

Wash in or spray on DWR replenishers are available, and I think Gore say that tumble-drying can revitalise the DWR, though correct approach to washing (non-bio, pure soap, or specialised wash liquid) is necessary to preserve it.

On the subject of pit-vents, there are some schools of thought that the breathability works less well unless there is a good temperature gradient between inside the garment and outside, so venting can undermine the breathable action of the fabric by reducing this gradient. Having said that, Breathables work much better on cooler days, but on warm days the gradient diminishes anyway so vents are probably a necessary thing on wet summer rides (but then, in the summer, getting wet isn't so bad anyway, so a windproof may be better).

 

[alfablue]

The only thing I now question is how much difference there is between different types. In theory Gore-tex is still the best but so much depends on how well the jacket is made and the breathable layer applied and what wicking materials are used etc..

I use Gore Pac-Lite and find it very good, but I believe eVent fabrics claim higher breathability, however it is heavier, and more importantly, Gore fabrics have a lifetime "keep you dry" guarantee, and they genuinely live up to it (regardless who manufactured the garment). Over the years I have tested this out a few times and I have always got a new replacement or a full refund when they have failed, with no quibble and no receipts - for this reason I would always choose Gore over other fabrics.

 

[Tynan]

I will also have a fairing on the bike, as seen here:-

http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/streamer/index_e.html

so as long as I have enough forward motion, I should be able to stay reasonably dry'ish. At least feet should stay dry, and driving rain stopped mostly.

tee hee, that manages to make recumbants even more absurd looking, surely there's some vision problems with one of them in the wet?

 

[davidwalton]

tee hee, that manages to make recumbants even more absurd looking, surely there's some vision problems with one of them in the wet?

Only in your opinion (and perhaps a few other DF riders) I think it looks great on both the cycles I am looking at, StreetMachine and SpeedMachine.

You look over the fairing, not through it.

 

[Blue]

No, this is wrong. Breathable waterproofs have a DWR (Durable Water Repellent) treatment so the water beads up and rolls off allowing the fabric to breath. It is not essential to waterproofing, as the fabric (like Gore Pac-Lite) is in itself waterproof, but if the DWR gets old then the breathability fails and the perception is of a leaky garment when it is in fact just sweat build up.

I think I'm right. A quick Google produced the following, which is similar to articles I recall reading some years ago.

Suffice it to say, however, that even the most breathable fabrics can only pass a certain amount of moisture per hour. If I go running during a Colorado thunderstorm, I often find upon my return that the inside of my rain jacket is damp. The jacket feels like it leaked, but when I test the fabric with a device that forces water against the fabric under pressure, I find that the material is still waterproof. It simply can't breathe fast enough to dispel the amount of moisture I produce during very vigorous exercise.

I have used new gore-tex garments for both running and hiking in the rain and I have to agree with the above.

 

[Blue]

No breathables do help .

I agree.

I have used them.

Just don't go thinking they keep you 'dry' in all conditions.

 

[alfablue]

I think I'm right. A quick Google produced the following, which is similar to articles I recall reading some years ago.

Suffice it to say, however, that even the most breathable fabrics can only pass a certain amount of moisture per hour. If I go running during a Colorado thunderstorm, I often find upon my return that the inside of my rain jacket is damp. The jacket feels like it leaked, but when I test the fabric with a device that forces water against the fabric under pressure, I find that the material is still waterproof. It simply can't breathe fast enough to dispel the amount of moisture I produce during very vigorous exercise.

I have used new gore-tex garments for both running and hiking in the rain and I have to agree with the above.

Well, the idea of the DWR is to allow the water to bead-up and not clog the pores. Agreed, there are always limits to breathability, and undoubtedly in extreme conditions (the thunderstorm could be more or less like having the garment immersed in water) then this can happen, but to generalise simplistically that "if it's raining the sweat stays inside the garment as the rain blocks the pores." is still wrong IMHO - if it were true then no waterproof would offer any breathability, in ANY rain. Both my own experience, and more convincingly, Gore's extensive testing of breathability under rain conditions, shows this is not the case.