Weight training

[barachus]

Just lift the weights, you might be a little slower, but you will certainly look better when you get off the bike

 

[Citius]

No they did same training on the bike but one group added strength training not on the bike, which made significant gains in all area a general cyclist would like to see gains which is what this thread is all about.

No you're missing my point. One group did 'x' training - the other group did 'x+1'. Who is to say that the control group would not have seen even higher performance gains, had they put in the equivalent extra amount of training (on the bike) that the intervention group did?

You subsequent post has no science to back it up, just an opinion. I have given you a controlled scientific study and you have given me a forum post, by someone unknown.

The quote I posted is a summary of the scientific and biological facts governing muscle performance. Feel free to disprove those facts if you wish.

 

[ayceejay]

A couple of myths that need clarifying: weight training does not necessarily lead to added bulk and the belief that, as cycling is primarily about the downward force created by the quadriceps these are the only leg muscles involved (see above). The OP was not asking specifically about strength training so if we can expand the question to how to use weights to improve performance we can include flexibility and attention to smaller muscles that will help to avoid injury, muscles that assist the primary movers but do not get a work out from cycling. The movement described above (squats) strengthens the quads that straighten the leg and is the major movement in cycling which is why sprinters concentrate on doing them for their standing start. But, and this can be contentious, there is more to turning a pedal than the downward thrust and since the legs get a quad overload from cycling work elsewhere can be beneficial.

 

[Citius]

Training with weights that does not increase strength is - by definition - not strength training. I've always said - if the OP wants to work his legs in the gym, then fine - but it won't make him any faster. It might even make him slower, as already pointed out.

 

[ayceejay]

My last stab at this - you are assuming that the ONLY reason anyone would train with weights is to increase strength so as to go faster on the bike and I am saying that there are other benefits not related to that paradigm and these would enhance performance i.e. the manner in which or the efficiency with which something reacts or fulfills its intended purpose.

 

[Citius]

Let's remind ourselves of the OP's question:

does anyone have any training plans or actually do weight training? I'm talking about leg training only. I do upper body weights four times a week and going to do a leg day but wondered what pro cyclists would normally train in regards to legs! I want to train like a cyclist rather than a weightlifter!

So he's asking - in his words - about 'leg training only' and (also in his words) about 'training like a cyclist'. My contention is that a cyclist does not (or should not) need to train their legs with weights. I am defining 'training' as exercise intended to bring about a specific improvement. I'm sure other definitions are available.

My last stab at this - you are assuming that the ONLY reason anyone would train with weights is to increase strength so as to go faster on the bike and I am saying that there are other benefits not related to that paradigm and these would enhance performance i.e. the manner in which or the efficiency with which something reacts or fulfills its intended purpose.

Can you give me an example?

 

[jowwy]

 

[ayceejay]

Being resistant to injury due to flexibility and balance would enhance performance.

 

[Citius]

Being resistant to injury due to flexibility and balance would enhance performance.

No it wouldn't - it would just mean you 'might' be more resistant to injury, nothing more. It would not give you a performance benefit in the sense that it would not make you faster. Being resistant to injury is not going to win you a 2-up sprint against another guy who happens to have done more training.

It's a bit like saying wearing a helmet might improve performance, as it might prevent a head injury if you crash - which it probably would, but that's not the point - you don't wear a helmet as a performance enhancing tool, unless it's a pointy hat for TTs. And at that point, it pretty much ceases to function as a safety device anyway.

Anecdotally, I have never had a leg injury through cycling, and I have never been to the gym either - so any preventative measures in the gym that I might have undertaken would have been a total waste of time. If the OP wants to talk about preventative exercise, then that's a whole new debate. But until then let's stick to the issue.

 

[adscrim]

No it wouldn't - it would just mean you 'might' be more resistant to injury, nothing more. It would not give you a performance benefit in the sense that it would not make you faster. Being resistant to injury is not going to win you a 2-up sprint against another guy who happens to have done more training.

Weight training probably would help in winning a 2-up sprint.

 

[Citius]

Weight training probably would help in winning a 2-up sprint.

At the end of a 70 mile road race - how? I assume that's what you meant, because you already know we aren't talking about track sprinting.

 

[Andrew_P]

Citrus ignores the scientific research he demanded that was specifically aimed at answering the question, or rather than ignore suggests that the same improvements could have been made if they had spent the extra time on the bike. But no specifics on how that time should be spent other than riding. I would assume that if cycle trainers including those at professional level include some leg weight training that there is a benefit.

One of the research papers went on to mention the is benefit in a sprint finish at the end of a long distance race

 

[ayceejay]

In spite of what I said earlier you still insist that the only performance benefit that can ever be achieved is going faster and this is where we part ways. Riding without pain in calves hips knees (and this is just the legs) would be an immense improvement for the many who post here with problems in that area. Cycling shortens the hamstrings and more cycling will shorten them more and without any compensatory measures this will invariably lead to injury, stretching and weight training specifically for the hamstring muscles might (happy?) make a difference. At this point I would like to say that I believe any activity that uses limited muscle groups without at least some attention to the body as a whole is heading for trouble.

 

[Andrew_P]

In conclusion:

• Strength training during the preparation phase can improve performance more than just endurance training.
• Maintenance strength training during the competition phase can improve performance further whilst endurance training does not.
• Strength training can improve time trial performance and also longer distance oxygen economy.
• Strength training can improve the power output in a sprint finish at the end of a longer distance.
• There is benefit in performing a mixture of explosive and high intensity training.
• As usual, if you are not used to resistance training, do start gently and seek some professional advice before starting.

Taken From that quotes various scientific research http://breakingmuscle.com/cycling/why-serious-cyclists-should-consider-strength-training

 

[Citius]

Citrus ignores the scientific research he demanded that was specifically aimed at answering the question, or rather than ignore suggests that the same improvements could have been made if they had spent the extra time on the bike. But no specifics on how that time should be spent other than riding. I would assume that if cycle trainers including those at professional level include some leg weight training that there is a benefit.

One of the research papers went on to mention the is benefit in a sprint finish at the end of a long distance race

I don't ignore it - I know it's there. But it is not conclusive, because the comparisons are not valid, as I pointed out earlier. The truth is the vast majority of pro coaches do not advocate leg strength training for endurance cycling. You seem to have found one American coach who does advocate it. That is not evidence that it works, it is only evidence that he advocates it. His rationale is unfounded, because studies he relies on as references as flawed. You only have to read a few of them objectively to understand that.