Wet Lube clean up

[nlmkiii]

If you have a bike you care about I can't see a good reason to just buy any old lube. There are people out there spending £3k+ on a bike and then shoving any old lube on, it's bizarre! 99% of wet lubes are such high maintenance and high friction (which means high knock-on costs). I can't see a good reason for a wet lube, even on an old commuter... I wouldn't even put it on my kid's Frog bike!!!

Wet lubes seem to offer the worst of all worlds. Perhaps only beaten by dry lubes!

Chuck them all in the bin.

 

[Alex321]

Does anyone actually use Chainsaw oil for chainsaws?

Yes.

But it is designed to be fed into the chain as it runs - you fill a reservoir in the chainsaw which drip feeds it onto the chain. It isn't designed to be just put on the chain and then left - though a bicycle chain is, of course, moving much more slowly.

 

[Cerdic]

If you have a bike you care about I can't see a good reason to just buy any old lube. There are people out there spending £3k+ on a bike and then shoving any old lube on, it's bizarre! 99% of wet lubes are such high maintenance and high friction (which means high knock-on costs). I can't see a good reason for a wet lube, even on an old commuter... I wouldn't even put it on my kid's Frog bike!!!

Wet lubes seem to offer the worst of all worlds. Perhaps only beaten by dry lubes!

Chuck them all in the bin.

What would you recommend instead?

 

[PaulSB]

Squirt lube. Great stuff.

 

[nlmkiii]

What would you recommend instead?

the most commonly recommended will be older style wax emulsion lubes, like Squirt / Smoove. And they are very good but they have initial penetration issues due to high viscosity. Great option if you put the effort in on the first application though (Take chain off, overload with wax, massage in for 20 minutes!), and you more than make up for that initial up front work by very low maintenance after.

I think they have been left in the dust by more modern wax emulsions though, like Silca Super Secret, or Ceramic Speed UFO drip. These look expensive but considering how much longer your drive train lasts with them, they actually work out cheaper.

But personally, I honestly can't see a reason not to immersive wax, it's the best value AND the easiest.
£15 for a slow cooker plus £20-£40 a wax which will last 20000km is a touch above a £5 MucOff lube, but when you run 2 chains and they last the 20000km rather than 3000km too you're saving money.
Because you don't have to spend ages cleaning (and don't have to use solvent to clean) you end up with such an easy process too, even more so if you run two chains. Take off chain, put on fresh chain. Put old chain in pot, turn on pot. Come back anywhere from an hour to a few days later, shake chain a bit, hang it up, turn off pot, and repeat. It's like, so so so so easy.
Make it even easier by topping up a waxed chain instead of changing after dry rides with something like Silca Super Secret, and only changing after wet rides, or after 1000-2000km. It's just indescribably easy.

So much easier than using a traditional lube, which leaves you with a horrible set of solvent cleaning stages that inevitably means you are taking far more time for the privilege of having a chain with dirty insides that has to be changed about 5x as fast.

BUT, most people won't do it still So just use Squirt / Smoove / Silca Super Secret / CeramicSpeed UFO.... or one of a few other options.

 

[nlmkiii]

Look at the differences below from Zero Friction Cycling. The test schedule is as follows:
All chains ran at 250W, and reapplied twice during each 1000km cycle.
1000km - no contamination
1000km - dry contaminants added at regular intervals
1000km - no contaminants
1000km - wet contamination added at regular intervals
1000km - no contaminants
1000km - extreme wet contaminants, significantly more and at more regular intervals

Silca Hot Melt Wax was still only 27.4% worn after all 6 stages (i.e., 27.4% of the way to 0.5% extension!), no wet lube has ever made it past stage 4.

MucOff was 145.4% worn (i.e. way way past worn) after only 2000km.... at the same point Silca Hot Melt was 1.7% worn.

Squirt was at 109% after 4000km, BUT it was applied using manufacturers recommended application. Squirt, with it's penetration issues, make that application awful. If you want to use it, spend 20 minutes at the start and you'll get thousands of km's out of the chain (plus it's low maintenance then as you can just wipe down and keep going, you don't need to solvent clean!).

I suspect i'm going waaayyyyy too far in to all this I just very much enjoy drive train stuff. We can't all have Dura Ace bikes, but we can have super smooth drive trains with chains that last for 15000-20000kms

 

[fraz101]

Where can I learn more about immersive wax techniques

 

[nlmkiii]

Where can I learn more about immersive wax techniques

Zero Friction Cycling ran by Adam Kerin is the best IMO, gives the most well researched advice, but he's pragmatic too and explains just how easy immersive waxing is.

Check out his YouTube too. Anything he doesn't know isn't worth knowing!

This is vid is the "how to". It's worth watching this over some of the shorter ones which can offer bad or incomplete advice. If it looks worth doing, watch his other stuff too

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdmriYX76NE

 

[PaulSB]

I have a buddy who swears by immersive waxing and takes the time to do this. I know my nature and would start full of enthusiasm and after 2-3 goes would lose that enthusiasm. It's a no for me.

I agree with much of what @nlmposts and have always believed good chain maintenance is very important. I also feel keeping the whole bike clean is important for easier riding and improving the lifespan of the entire bike.

it does surprise me to read Squirt is tricky to set up. I always wipe down the chain and lube straight after a ride. My cleaning routine when the bike needs it, not after every ride, is:

• clean bike
• clean chain as needed
• apply Squirt
• leave for 20-30 minutes while I tidy up etc.
• second application if needed
• wipe off excess

Not exactly labour intensive.

 

[jdh72]

Wonder wipes for cleaning.

I stopped using wet lube years ago, makes a terrible mess.

Favourite is Squirt, dry lube. Difference compared to oil based wet lubes is amazing.
Lube after every ride. Use 365 days including in rain n snow. Take a small dropper bottle of squirt on all overnighters.

 

[fraz101]

Zero Friction Cycling ran by Adam Kerin is the best IMO, gives the most well researched advice, but he's pragmatic too and explains just how easy immersive waxing is.

Check out his YouTube too. Anything he doesn't know isn't worth knowing!

This is vid is the "how to". It's worth watching this over some of the shorter ones which can offer bad or incomplete advice. If it looks worth doing, watch his other stuff too

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdmriYX76NE

Watched the video so to clarify.

Buy a slow cooker, buy some immersive wax, heat the wax,dip chain for a while,leave to set,refit chain.

Do you clean chain before immersing?
Do you wipe chain after each ride?
Interesting and tempting to give it a try.

 

[nlmkiii]

I have a buddy who swears by immersive waxing and takes the time to do this. I know my nature and would start full of enthusiasm and after 2-3 goes would lose that enthusiasm. It's a no for me.

I agree with much of what @nlmposts and have always believed good chain maintenance is very important. I also feel keeping the whole bike clean is important for easier riding and improving the lifespan of the entire bike.

it does surprise me to read Squirt is tricky to set up. I always wipe down the chain and lube straight after a ride. My cleaning routine when the bike needs it, not after every ride, is:

• clean bike
• clean chain as needed
• apply Squirt
• leave for 20-30 minutes while I tidy up etc.
• second application if needed
• wipe off excess

Not exactly labour intensive.

This is why I still recommend Squirt a lot. It’s very low maintenance. I do think it’s worth the 20 minutes of prep at the start as it will double the longevity (and reduce friction) of the chain. My day 1 prep of a squirt chain is:

Cleaning part (same for all new chains to remove factory grease / glue)
- White spirit, shake, refill shake and keep going til clear. Leave to soak at the end just to make sure. Needs 2-3 shakes on most. But 7-8 on SRAM as it’s glue.
- Put used white spirit in jar back of garage ready for a yearly solvent disposal run
- shake in IPA, leave for a bit. Shake again then hang to dry.

Then the lubing part:
- Put chain on a dinner plate
- Pour 15ml of Squirt on
- Massage chain and keep turning it to pick up all the Squirt on the plate. I go for 20 minutes whilst watching TV, but less is certainly fine
- leave to dry on a new plate overnight
- wipe down

Alternative would be to just immerse in Squirt, but once it’s been out in the air it isn’t so good so the above is far cheaper and has a similar effect.

 

[nlmkiii]

Watched the video so to clarify.

Buy a slow cooker, buy some immersive wax, heat the wax,dip chain for a while,leave to set,refit chain.

Do you clean chain before immersing?
Do you wipe chain after each ride?
Interesting and tempting to give it a try.

Swish chain once immersed too. You want to leave it there for 5 minutes minimum too to ensure chain warms up and so gets full penetration.

Correct - You don’t need to do any particular clean before immersing, just the normal wipe down. If it’s particularly dirty then you can swish it in boiling water a few times, but no solvents needed, and the wax will last 30-50 immersions anyway even without cleaning.

Yes wipe down after each ride.

Personally I’d advise getting one of the good drip lubes to top up after dry rides as well, as it is nearly as effective and does reduce your workload. Just means you only have to full immerse after wet rides or 1-2000 km.

Also running 2 chains will make things far easier.

 

[nlmkiii]

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/new-chain-lube.217068/#post-4765292
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/l...in-what-do-you-use.228046/page-4#post-5083429

What Yellow Saddle said just isn't true in any way, shape or form.

Literally everything about it is completely wrong.

 

[nlmkiii]

Yellow Saddle is saying that Wax gets forced out of the bushes and doesn't flow back, thus not providing adequate lubrication.

As an Engineer, I could be persuaded to agree with your point of view, if you had some facts to discredit the following statement by Yellow Saddle: "The reason why greases and waxes are not good chain lubrication is because they cannot flow back after being forced out of a pressure face. Oil does that very well"

I think the question needs to be rephrased. The argument of "oil flows back, and that is good" is just an assumption. He would need to show that oil flows back quickly enough (under such pressure it seems unlikely that such a thin layer would flow back quickly enough when ran at an ordinary cadence), and that IF it does so it is in fact a useful property anyway. Sure it sounds intuitive but as you are an engineer I'm sure you'll have hundreds of examples of where what seems intuitive is actually completely wrong.
Note that the downside of such a mechanism where oil flows back is that any dirt caught on the outside ALSO flows into the important parts. This is intuitively bad if there are other methods where we are not creating a flow of dirt from outside the chain to inside the chain.

With modern waxes it is often NOT the wax itself that is creating the key lubrication anyway, rather it is the additives that are creating a nanolayer and hence creating highly slippery hard wearing surfaces. These are solids that aren't just worn away so quickly. They do need replenishing, but the surrounding waxes do indeed replenish these chemicals. Perhaps the lack of an actual flow here, and the dirt staying on the outside of the chain is a key factor in why waxes are so much better?

BUT what really matters is not what how we intuitively view the differences between oils and waxes or anything else. The only question that really matters is "What actually works?".
And the answer to this question by many magnitudes of order is a high quality correctly applied wax.

With wax, whether it flows back or not, we can see from tests that the chains wear at a much lower rate. With modern waxes you also have additives that create a microscopic nanolayer which is replenished from surrounding wax (titanium disulphide, molybdenum, graphene etc.). This stuff DOES flow back to the important parts. The mechanism by which the nano-particles flow back, I am unsure of. I believe it is just because with so much wax inside the chain it just kinda keeps getting everywhere. Small movements (particularly in the slack part at the bottom of the chain cycle) just recoat everything. And because the waxes are so effective it doesn't take much, but I could be wrong on that fact.



The other things he said about "the blackness is just bits of chain" is just utter nonsense, and I'm sure anyone can see that. It's very clear that in a 100km ride you aren't getting such huge amounts of chain wear that it has diffused onto the outer parts of the chain to the extent that it is completely visible. Can you imagine how much chain wear that would take! We'd all be going through chains like bottles of water. Our saddle bags would have an inner tube, CO2 canister, and 4 chains!
The black stuff is just dirt from the road, all of it, literally none of the visible dirt is metal particles.