What an HGV sees of you

[MontyVeda]

Arghhh, not this video again!
OK, it might be useful in highlighting the fact that visibility can be restricted from an artic cab, BUT that particular video is nonsense.

you didn't bother reading the thread before posting did you.

1. Mirrors are not properly adjusted, showing far too much of the side of the cab, and therefore less of the angle away from the vehicle.

yawn

2. It is parked with the cab and trailer at an angle, which it wouldn't be if sitting stationary at lights. Drivers would hopefully keep cab and trailer aligned for best visibility, and only start to turn when moving off, having checked that there are no cyclists.

it's not sitting stationary at the lights, it's making a makeover... and do you really assume the driver would have checked for cyclists?

3. As others have pointed out, it fails to show the other mirror at the top of the nearside window which points down to the ground, the purpose of which is to erradicate that blind spot not covered by rear view mirrors.

only if it's fitted, positioned correctly and the driver is looking in it.

4. Worst of all, the camera is being held at somewhere slightly above a drivers waist level! The tops of some of those cyclists would be visible from eye level, simply by turning your head and looking out of the nearside window.

it's only trying to show that it's dangerous to cycle up the inside of a long vehicle... it's not a scientifically designed experiment... even an idoit can work that out.

Yes I am talking from experience. HGV class 1 licence holder for about 8 years now, with 6 years full time driving an artic. Now where's the bookmark facility so I can cut and paste this for next time this clip appears!

blah blah blah I know every thing blah blah I'll tell em blah blah... cut and paste your yawnfest by all means.

 

[subaqua]

Here's a basic for you: i before e except after c

Are these private messages of support? Unseen to everyone else.

not always , chiefly I look around before manouvering but i cannot see all the way round at all times. if you must resort to incorrect pedantry then i believe you have lost that argument .

 

[Judderz]

Arghhh, not this video again!
OK, it might be useful in highlighting the fact that visibility can be restricted from an artic cab, BUT that particular video is nonsense.

2. It is parked with the cab and trailer at an angle, which it wouldn't be if sitting stationary at lights. Drivers would hopefully keep cab and trailer aligned for best visibility, and only start to turn when moving off, having checked that there are no cyclists.

Yes I am talking from experience. HGV class 1 licence holder for about 8 years now, with 6 years full time driving an artic. Now where's the bookmark facility so I can cut and paste this for next time this clip appears!

He also wouldn't be indicating left if he was going straight on, he would have his vehicle at an angle....which he has. Check the video again, look at his left indicator, then correct your post, then bookmark it.

Loving your experience of driving vehicle of this size!

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

not always , chiefly I look around before manouvering but i cannot see all the way round at all times. if you must resort to incorrect pedantry then i believe you have lost that argument .

I think you'll find that my pedantry was correct. If you are going to assert something it is always best to make sure you evidence that assertion within the post being made. Nothing to do with winning or losing - as far as I am concerned there is no argument. A point of fact.

 

[Brandane]

He also wouldn't be indicating left if he was going straight on, he would have his vehicle at an angle....which he has. Check the video again, look at his left indicator, then correct your post, then bookmark it.

Loving your experience of driving vehicle of this size!

I was assuming that everyone knows that the set was staged for a left turn, given that yes, the left indicator is on, and the cab is starting to make a left turn, and there are cyclists along its nearside.
What I meant was: An artic driver waiting at a junction to turn left will hopefully keep the tractor unit and trailer in a straight line BEFORE making sure it is clear to begin making the turn, as once the turn commences, blind spots are created (the mirrors show what's down the side of the tractor unit. Once the turn starts, the view in the mirrors progressively becomes more and more of the trailer to whatever direction the turn is going - the mirrors can't possibly show what is happening beyond the trailer once certain angles of turn are reached).

My original post was somewhat simplified. HTH.

 

[Brandane]

you didn't bother reading the thread before posting did you.

yawn

it's not sitting stationary at the lights, it's making a makeover... and do you really assume the driver would have checked for cyclists?

only if it's fitted, positioned correctly and the driver is looking in it.

it's only trying to show that it's dangerous to cycle up the inside of a long vehicle... it's not a scientifically designed experiment... even an idoit can work that out.

blah blah blah I know every thing blah blah I'll tell em blah blah... cut and paste your yawnfest by all means.

I did qualify it at the start of the post by conceding that "it might be useful in highlighting the fact that visibility can be restricted from an artic cab".

If you choose to believe the nonsense that is the video clip, then that is up to you. Interesting to note that you consider an artic with badly adjusted mirrors to be something to yawn about; that tells me all I need to know .

I don't know everything, but I DID actually drive one of them for 6 years. I reckon that probably makes me better qualified to comment about the video than you. I think we may have had this discussion before, since you are the guy with the scaremongering avatar. YAAAAAWN.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

@Brandane, just a question about artics. You know those old Citroëns (DSs, I think) where the headlights changed direction as the steering wheel changed direction. What I'm wondering is whether having mirrors calibrated to turn with the angle of tractor to trailer could possibly improve visibility while turning? (And of course, whether you know of examples where it's been tried. I'm not talking about something I know anything about. I'm simply trying to think of anything that might help.) So that, as the cab turns, the mirror pivots to reduce the blind spot.

If a 60s (?) car could do it mechanically, surely a similar system, probably electrical, could be designed by a good engineering undergraduate. The question is whether it could help for blind spots?

 

[SWSteve]

I think you'll find that my pedantry was correct.

to play devil's advocate: science, efficient, seize, weird and caffeine

 

[Brandane]

@Brandane, just a question about artics. You know those old Citroëns (DSs, I think) where the headlights changed direction as the steering wheel changed direction. What I'm wondering is whether having mirrors calibrated to turn with the angle of tractor to trailer could possibly improve visibility while turning? (And of course, whether you know of examples where it's been tried. I'm not talking about something I know anything about. I'm simply trying to think of anything that might help.) So that, as the cab turns, the mirror pivots to reduce the blind spot.

If a 60s (?) car could do it mechanically, surely a similar system, probably electrical, could be designed by a good engineering undergraduate. The question is whether it could help for blind spots?

In theory, yes I suppose it could help to eradicate blind spots (but might create others!). If for example you were turning left, and as you did so the mirror rotated outwards (and then inwards as you straightened up). It still wouldn't help to be able to see the blind spot along the right side of the trailer when reversing to the left (and left side when reversing to the right).
The smaller mirror positioned either above or below the main mirror is supposed to cover such blind spots as it is convex. On tight turns though, even it is of little use.

I have driven a car with a similar system, which is totally unnecessary. Funnily enough I think it was a Citroen, possibly a C5. Put it in reverse and the nearside mirror automatically changes position. Why it does it, I'm not quite sure - maybe to give a better view of the kerb for parking. A typically Citroen gimmick!

 

[MontyVeda]

...
you are the guy with the scaremongering avatar. YAAAAAWN.

do you really think that advising people not to cycle up the inside of artics is scaremongering?

 

[Brandane]

do you really think that advising people not to cycle up the inside of artics is scaremongering?

That's not what your avatar says though, is it? It says "all of these bikes are in the driver's blindspot". I am saying they are not. Unless of course the driver sits with his head on the seatbase, and with badly adjusted mirrors.
Anyway, enough of this; like I said we have discussed this before.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

In theory, yes I suppose it could help to eradicate blind spots (but might create others!). If for example you were turning left, and as you did so the mirror rotated outwards (and then inwards as you straightened up). It still wouldn't help to be able to see the blind spot along the right side of the trailer when reversing to the left (and left side when reversing to the right).
The smaller mirror positioned either above or below the main mirror is supposed to cover such blind spots as it is convex. On tight turns though, even it is of little use.

I have driven a car with a similar system, which is totally unnecessary. Funnily enough I think it was a Citroen, possibly a C5. Put it in reverse and the nearside mirror automatically changes position. Why it does it, I'm not quite sure - maybe to give a better view of the kerb for parking. A typically Citroen gimmick!

Thanks for that. I realise that it wouldn't eradicate blind spots (and there's already a convex mirror for the reversing turns) but I'm thinking specifically about bike fatalities. The concern here is to keep the best possible visibility of the nearside area and the ''I can't see you when I turn'' problem highlighted by that video. It would probably have to only affect the mirror on the side to which the vehicle is turning because the other side would then become a complete blind spot if it followed the same degree of turn - you'd only see the side of the tractor.

A second question about the risk of creating other blind spots: I imagine that under the current arrangement, when you turn to the left, there's a degree of sweep through a small arc before it becomes simply a view of the nearside of the truck. Would the loss of that sweep view be significant, given that you'll be concentrating primarily on the road you're entering? And what other loss of vision might there be?

 

[MontyVeda]

That's not what your avatar says though, is it? It says "all of these bikes are in the driver's blindspot".
...

well done... that's what it says, but what is it saying? What is the message it's trying to get across?

 

[Brandane]

well done... that's what it says, but what is it saying? What is the message it's trying to get across?

Okay, I will try again, 3rd time lucky and all that - "IT MIGHT BE USEFUL IN HIGHLIGHTING THE FACT THAT VISIBILITY CAN BE RESTRICTED FROM AN ARTIC CAB".

However, the content of the video is bollox.

 

[MontyVeda]

sometimes i wonder if I'm surrounded by idiots, but I'm not, they're just pretending to be idiots for the sake of argument.