You could stack a few together and climb up them.....
If the implication is that the public sector are doing very well for a pension and the private aren't, surely the answer is to improve the lot of the private sector.
What are you up to tomorrow then?
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You could stack a few together and climb up them.....
If the implication is that the public sector are doing very well for a pension and the private aren't, surely the answer is to improve the lot of the private sector.
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
I have doubts whether the Tory Government should be blamed for people choosing to opt out of their pension scheme. I do completely understand public sector workers doing their best to screw as much as they can out of what they have or even haven't been promised. I would do the same. The thing is yesterday, they were wandering the streets with two arms and two legs looking for sympathy, empathy and a beep off people with one arm and one leg (so to speak). I've had many dealings with the NHS, the council and other civil service bodies and the "service" is shocking but I can't vote with my feet can I. I work in an industry where if our service is crap, people will go elsewhere and I'll get sacked. If I compare my experience with the hospital receptionist and Wiggle.com, I see the worst compared to the best. The difference is one has no competition the other does have competition.
martint235
Dog on a bike
- Location
- Welling
Ah the Tories don't want you thinking like that!!! The Tories want the more populous private sector to gang up on public sector workers and drag us down to their level.
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
No. The implication is that the private sector understand times are hard and we must suffer cutbacks to our pension, pay and working hours. I'm implying the public sector workers live in a bubble and think they should be immune to the financial crisis we are going through.
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
Judging by how rammed the Trafford Centre was yesterday the pay and conditions of the Public sector can't possibly be that bad.
(I happened to be working there on a job by the way)
(I happened to be working there on a job by the way)
martint235
Dog on a bike
- Location
- Welling
The Government can be blamed for giving people the choice though, it's only a relatively recent thing, late 80s/early 90s I believe.
The only way to create competition is to introduce a market. Once you've done that, you're seconds away from a two tier system because a market will always revolve around money so the rich will get the best service and people like someone who climbs poles for a living, will unfortunately receive an even worse service. Even at a basic service like Wiggle, you'll get your product faster and cheaper if you spend more money.
And I'm afraid that by worsening the terms and conditions of the public sector generally, you're going to get worse service not better.
swampyseifer
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Milton Keynes. UK
riiiiiight. You're standing behind a man who is proclaiming he wants to see 2 million people murdered in front of their families?
I wouldnt mind normally, as he's always spewing stupid comments out of that neanderthalic mind of his, but it was when he alluded to him suffering as a hard worker!
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
Come on, I think we all know it was exaggerated and silly and it was tongue in cheek. We all watch stand up comedians but noone believes their stories. I'm not Clarksons biggest fan but the hysteria and mob mentality when he says something so obviously daft annoys me more than what he comes out with.
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
Could we get a worse service than we already get? But that's why public sector workers should count their blessings. This may be controversial but councils can employ all sorts of languages, disabilities, creeds, lazy and all and sundry because they have a captive audience who have no choice. When I go to the local council office and get spoken to like a piece of crap by a "lady" who can barley speak English it is rather annoying, but what is the option. My point is that they are lucky. A private company wouldn't want to subject the paying customer to this because they would lose business as the customer would go elsewhere. The bottom line is if you're in the public sector, you're very lucky because the alternative is even worse pay and conditions so please don't complain about your lot to people in the private sector.
Of course I work in the private sector because I get better pay and conditions, as do many others. I also think my council's services are light years better than they were and I dread the thought of them now getting worse.
swampyseifer
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Milton Keynes. UK
well yes, I'm sure he doesnt actually want to see it happen. How on Earth would the BBC be able to pay him all his thousands when they loose a large chunk of TV license payees!
swampyseifer
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Milton Keynes. UK
Its funny, I get that when I call many different non-public sector places....banks, mobile phone companies, gas/leccy etc
What I dont get is...is it really going to make any different to the hard-done by private sector workers? is their council tax going to drop? Or is it just a you-should-suffer-as-well mentality?
martint235
Dog on a bike
- Location
- Welling
Yes you could get no service at all. There is no money to be made in providing what the public sector does so if you introduce competition you would get two levels: the rich get a service, the poor get nothing. Where the line is drawn between the two and how long it takes to polarise are up for debate but it WILL happen. Then the state would step in with less money to provide the service to the poor.
Just suppose that tomorrow we stopped all taxation but you were expected to pay the cost of all the services you consume, that's where you end up with a market.
I agree that some of the public service could be improved or indeed got rid of altogether but to get rid of the "lady" you have to vote for someone who will stand up against the people who say we have to employ the lazy, the unemployable etc. I know people who "work" for the same dept as me who I wouldn't employ ever. However they know that the law is on their side and any hint of an objective appraisal and the scream of discrimination is deafening. However that's not the fault of those of us that are actually good at what we do. What this Govt, and previous govts did, are trying to do is make the public service so unpopular as a place to work that all the talent will go and work elsewhere (job I can do advertised in the suffering private sector today at £48k pa.). Then you'll be left with a higher percentage of dross and the service will get worse.
Just suppose that tomorrow we stopped all taxation but you were expected to pay the cost of all the services you consume, that's where you end up with a market.
I agree that some of the public service could be improved or indeed got rid of altogether but to get rid of the "lady" you have to vote for someone who will stand up against the people who say we have to employ the lazy, the unemployable etc. I know people who "work" for the same dept as me who I wouldn't employ ever. However they know that the law is on their side and any hint of an objective appraisal and the scream of discrimination is deafening. However that's not the fault of those of us that are actually good at what we do. What this Govt, and previous govts did, are trying to do is make the public service so unpopular as a place to work that all the talent will go and work elsewhere (job I can do advertised in the suffering private sector today at £48k pa.). Then you'll be left with a higher percentage of dross and the service will get worse.
swampyseifer
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Milton Keynes. UK
Surely by the fact of what it is, the public sector can't make money? You can't charge yourself for getting your clothes ready, dressing yourself, driving yourself to work, sorting out your lunch, driving yourself home, making your tea, reading and replying to post, managing your finances etc...
However if you cant manage it all yourself, you pay for someone else to do it for you?
Its the same principle but on a national scale?
However if you cant manage it all yourself, you pay for someone else to do it for you?
Its the same principle but on a national scale?
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
Yes, but, when you ring India about your Broadband you are talking to someone who gets paid £20 a week and a bowl of rice so you can have your Broadband for just £4.80 a month. I'm getting spoken to like a piece of crap by someone who earns more than me but the concept of "customer" is lost on her even though I'm paying thousands to keep her in a job that I have no choice but to pay. There are banks that don't have offshore call centres and some that do. You, as the customer, can make a choice. I can't in this case.
I take your point that it would be difficult and probably unwise and maybe impossible to introduce a choice for certain services but if only some of the individuals in the Public sector were more "customer" focused and efficient then there wouldn't be as much bad feeling and less waste. I also accept that there are very good workers in the CS that earn their corn but Labour in their "wisdom" thought the best way to cut unemployment was to create thousands of CS jobs that weren't necessary and give a lot of those jobs to people who in the real world are virtually unemployable. Brilliant ! Now look at the mess we're in.
