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OP
OP
GmanUK65
Über Member
- Location
- Wallsend, Newcastleupon Tyne
I've just looked at the Thorn brochure and they look very good bikes. The Thorn Club Tour MK4 700c especially interests me but the price being over £1500 and little chance of finance, getting it is doubtful. I suppose I could use this to compare it against bikes I can get on finance
Ticktockmy
Guru
- Location
- Crawley, West Sussex
As you say in your original post that it will be a few years before you will go on tour, to save paying interest fee's why not start saving now. As to which bike to use, I have cycled down through Europe, Africa and Asia and have never used expensive cycles, for my Africa trip I used a cheap Raleigh Mirage, just added a pair of racks and panniers and away we went for 4 months. Only problem I had was the bottom bracket died when crossing the Nubian desert and I had to do a rebuild. It is all too easy to get drawn into thinking that throwing money at a bike will give you a reliable machine. Expensive bikes attracts sticky fingers whereas an battered old wreck is less attractive. Likewise, if you do have your cycle stolen or wrecked its not so bad, and you can buy a new one at the nearest cycle shop
Time Waster
Veteran
Look at wheelbase on Staveley and ilkley. They do tour de fer and kona bikes. Up to 3 years interest free and you choose deposit and length of term to suit. It's with the usual V12 retail credit company though seems a better deal than most other bike shops that offer credit
OP
OP
GmanUK65
Über Member
- Location
- Wallsend, Newcastleupon Tyne
Sorry mate, I've realised it wasn't a pop up, I accidently clicked your name and not the post and a pop up of your profile came up. Sorry again
OP
OP
GmanUK65
Über Member
- Location
- Wallsend, Newcastleupon Tyne
Well I've done a complete turn around with my bike choices. Don't want drop bars no more, I've realised on a lot of occasions after 50 miles or so I get a sore back or/and a sore neck, probably posture or bike fit needed. I used to have a hybrid and never a sore back so now I want flat bars.
Also, I have realised it is best to have the option of going on trails and I want 1.75 hybrid tyres for this, all the 700cc wheeled touring bikes I have found have thinner tyres, for 26 inch hybrid bikes there are options for 1.75 tyres, as well as the bike I think would suit me best - Ridgeback Expedition 2018
I've no doubt I will probably change my mind again in the future lol.
Also, I have realised it is best to have the option of going on trails and I want 1.75 hybrid tyres for this, all the 700cc wheeled touring bikes I have found have thinner tyres, for 26 inch hybrid bikes there are options for 1.75 tyres, as well as the bike I think would suit me best - Ridgeback Expedition 2018
I've no doubt I will probably change my mind again in the future lol.
OP
OP
GmanUK65
Über Member
- Location
- Wallsend, Newcastleupon Tyne
I'm back to not being sure again. I'm thinking, as people have said before, do I need a bike like the Ridgeback, or a thorn bike when I'm only going to Europe for 3 months. I need to find out how much kit I will be needing and the weight of that kit. If it's less than I think, will a hybrid be enough (one that pannier rack can be fitted) I suppose the info I need is, what is the maximum load a hybrid can take.
Heltor Chasca
Out-riding the Black Dog
I would choose the lighter of your choices as it may cover more uses when you aren't touring. That said, my Surly is a round-the-worlder like some of the Thorn bikes, but I wouldn’t have it any other way and use it for EVERYTHING.
minininjarob
Active Member
I love my Tour De Fer, my brother was impressed with it so much he bought one too. Lots of nice details such as kick stand mount, spare spoke mounts, 3 bottle mounts etc. Shows they’ve really thought about the frame design. I have 700c wheels with 35c tyres and they are enough to do light off road no problems, nice and comfy.
I’ve converted mine to flat bars as that’s what I prefer. I also put some better wheels on.
Can’t see me selling it as it does a bit of everthing and is so versatile.
I’ve converted mine to flat bars as that’s what I prefer. I also put some better wheels on.
Can’t see me selling it as it does a bit of everthing and is so versatile.
- Location
- London
Interesting - was always the drops that put me off what otherwise seemed a very nice bike to me.
Feel free to post a pic of it.
Expensive to swap from drops to flat? - a fair few bits to be disposed of/others bought?
Did you find that the frame size was still suitable without extensive jiggery pokery on the reach?
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
How long is a piece of string?
It depends on the frame itself. And the wheels. And the spokes - quality, weave and tension. And the tyres - size and pressure. And the road surfaces. And the speed. And the temperature. And the location of the weight. And the maintenance. And....
And then, even if the bike can "take" the load how comfortable will it be to ride or descend hairpins in the Alps or Pyrenees? How will it handle off-road?
https://www.gumtree.com/p/bicycles/trek-/1307311891
That's enough bike for what you want to do (so long as it fits).
At the very least it's enough bike to get you out, dipping your toes in overnight trips to help you figure out what you'll want to be bringing with you.
40 quid!
Use it, learn on it and if you want to get a "touring" bike, then you can sell it for probably the same as you paid for it.
Incidentally, if you look around on that site, you'll see a low mileage Ridgeback with 2 sets of Ortliebs for 550 quid!!
I've said it before; Getting out on a bike and going for a bit of a "tour" will teach you far more about what you need, don't need, what you like, don't like and what's really important.
Bike touring despite the name, is really not about the bike! It's about touring.
Indulge me....
The bike is only the base of the Bike Touring Pizza.
You have a choice of crispy or doughy, whatever your preference is. If you're not a weight weenie, go for a cheese injected crust
But the toppings that go on top - they're what make the Pizza! Oftentimes, if the toppings are good, it doesn't matter what type of base is underneath.
It seems you're trying to make the perfect pizza without trying any of the toppings to know what you like or don't like or what go together and what don't.
Instead, you're asking strangers on the internet what they like.
I'd never order a pizza that way!
I've toured from Holland to Spain, over the Pyrenees, followed the Camino de Santiago to Santiago (off-road), wandered the western coast of Spain and then back along the Northern coast of Spain (lots of mountains!) and back to NL on a no-name hybrid bike that cost me nothing other than a service.
In total that bike toured in 7 different countries and did about 12-15000 km fully loaded before a chainstay cracked (suspiciously where a stand had been attached).
That worked for me. I don't know if it will work for you.
It was stuck in mud about a foot deep along the Somme, rode through a flooded forest path that reached the top of my ortliebs near Pamplona, cruised down mountains at up to 70kmh in the Pyrenees (going up was not as fast!) and was pushed, dragged and sometimes carried over off-road hilltops.
All I needed from that bike was to be able to trust it to do what I wanted it to do. And it did.
It was of no use at the campsite in Sen Sebastian (on top of a hill) in the middle of the most wonderful thunderstorm! My tent was.
It was of no use when the campsite I headed to in France was closed - a friendly local was.
It was of no use in picking out a good place to eat - my nose was.
Now I tour on a rigid steel frame, 26 inch wheels for strength and dynohub efficiency. I've gone from 1,5 to 1,75 to 2,0 tyres, purely for comfort.
That's only somewhat useful to you until I add
I carry 4 panniers and a rack bag, total weight of about 25 kg.
That's only somewhat useful to you until I add
I also tour in winter and carry a largeish tent and full cooking gear for cooking real food, not re-hydrated stuff.
Other useful information to assess how useful my story is
My average daily distance and speed, (Average is 80-85 km per day, 18 kph)
My fitness level, (reasonable, I have a 42 km daily commute 5 days per week)
How long I cycle for per day, (I stop a lot, but probably an average of 5 hours per day)
No disrespect to anyone offering any advice on any of your threads but the advice they offer is from their perspective, including my own
If someone tells you that they toured on thin racing tyres, then it might be useful to know they were staying in hotels, carried less than 5 kg of gear and never rode in the rain!
If someone tells you that they had to have tubeless fat tyres, front suspension and a bear bell it would be good to know that they rode the Great Divide Mountain Bike trail.
If you want to keep your dream alive, you need to find your own perspective, otherwise 2 years out from your tour, your dream is going to drown in too much information.
Good Luck!
Attachments
- Location
- London
Great post Hobbes - at the risk of a small thread divert can I ask you to elaborate a bit on the last point? Physics never my strong point. Have been considering a dynohub for charging a powerbank for a while, though possibly about to give up on the idea.
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
Thanks!
Getting on a bike and heading off exploring was one of the best things I have done. So many people I meet express a wish to do the same and I find it hard to understand why they don't. I'm probably too evangelical when someone like the OP comes along, but I firmly believe that once someone tries it, they will see the reality rather than the confusion of steel vs aluminium, 26 vs 700, ortliebs vs anything else.
I'm no physicist myself, but my logic is that a smaller wheel turns faster than a larger wheel, therefore a smaller wheel can generate power at a lower speed than a larger wheel.
Of course, the size of the tyre has an influence too, so my current 2,0 tyres make the "wheel" bigger than my previous 1,5 tyres.
Given that I use the hub for touring, and I tend to tour slowly, that logic works for me. Stephen Peel of these forums found his dynohub wasn't generating power the way he expected. He has 700 wheels, big tyres and travels slowly.
As for if a dynohub is for you, well that depends on you!
There's 2 parts to the charging system.
1 Is the hub.
2. Is how you charge from it. There are a lot of options out there for this, and as a non-technical person I found it difficult to wade through and process.
At the end of the day I operate on the KISS principle and went for the simplest option possible. It also happened to be the cheapest!
My thought process was to reject any option that had a built in battery. Batteries fail and when they do so does your system. Also, I'd want to charge from sockets too, when I can. A built in battery makes that more difficult. Finally, something that look like a powerbank is attractive to just about everybody.
I rejected anything that was too big or bulky on the bike. It's used on a touring bike. There's already lots of things attached.
I rejected the light with a USB socket because my light is not attached at the crown. I have a platform rack and the light is attached at the front of that. That would lead to a long usb cable going to whatever I was charging.
So I chose the cycle2charge.de unit. A little larger than a bicycle bell it sits on my handlebars. (Threadless stems can accommodate them inside the top of the stem). Cable runs down to the hub. Minimum impact and almost invisible to a casual thief.
From that I can plug in my Wahoo GPS unit (Garmin didn't work with it - a feature of garmins) or more usually a powerbank either inside my handlebar bag (depending on weather or surface) but usually in an outside pocket where I can see if a cable is loose and monitor the charging progress.
Charging a powerbank and from that a phone etc, is not the most efficient way of charging. Power is lost at both ends of the equation. However, depending on the device, eg phone, it may switch off when you slow down and not restart when you speed up. To my way of thinking, that's not efficient at all!
On a typical day of touring this system will generate enough power to recharge my Wahoo, my phone and still have some juice left over. I also need to recharge a tablet, kindle and rechargeable batteries. (I use the Wahoo mainly for tracking not so much for navigation, so it's always on. I use phone and tablet minimally. The kindle is second on the charging priority list)
I also carry an (old) fold out solar panel from before I had the dynohub. I use it at camp, or if I'm having a lazy day. It's remarkably efficient, especially when stationary. Not so great strapped on the back of a bike - but it will help in an emergency.
Depending on where and when you tour you don't need a dynohub, but I like the freedom of being self sufficient. I noticed in Spain that campsites were starting to charge for charging. I've no problem with that - it just means that you're limited by the opening hours of the office. And there have been some campsites I've been in where I was afraid something would happen to me in the bathrooms, never mind a powerbank!
If you use the same bike for commuting for example, then it deserves more thought.
As for the Dynohub itself? I got the cheapest I could (Shimano) built into the original wheel of my MTB conversion. Nothing wrong with Shimano, but I'm not a fan of the plastic connector. Fine for commuting, not so much for touring.
When I upgraded my wheels, I got a set from SJSCycles with a Son28. Greater distance between servicing than Shimano. My Shimano is now on my commuter.
I carry 2 powerbanks, one large, one small. The idea is that one is charging while the other can simultaneously be used to charge something. Probably overkill, but when I do get the chance for a long socket charge then the big one gets plugged in and I have juice for up to a week.
Hope that didn't muddy the waters!
Great advice, thanks for that.Thanks!
Getting on a bike and heading off exploring was one of the best things I have done. So many people I meet express a wish to do the same and I find it hard to understand why they don't. I'm probably too evangelical when someone like the OP comes along, but I firmly believe that once someone tries it, they will see the reality rather than the confusion of steel vs aluminium, 26 vs 700, ortliebs vs anything else.
I'm no physicist myself, but my logic is that a smaller wheel turns faster than a larger wheel, therefore a smaller wheel can generate power at a lower speed than a larger wheel.
Of course, the size of the tyre has an influence too, so my current 2,0 tyres make the "wheel" bigger than my previous 1,5 tyres.
Given that I use the hub for touring, and I tend to tour slowly, that logic works for me. Stephen Peel of these forums found his dynohub wasn't generating power the way he expected. He has 700 wheels, big tyres and travels slowly.
As for if a dynohub is for you, well that depends on you!
There's 2 parts to the charging system.
1 Is the hub.
2. Is how you charge from it. There are a lot of options out there for this, and as a non-technical person I found it difficult to wade through and process.
At the end of the day I operate on the KISS principle and went for the simplest option possible. It also happened to be the cheapest!
My thought process was to reject any option that had a built in battery. Batteries fail and when they do so does your system. Also, I'd want to charge from sockets too, when I can. A built in battery makes that more difficult. Finally, something that look like a powerbank is attractive to just about everybody.
I rejected anything that was too big or bulky on the bike. It's used on a touring bike. There's already lots of things attached.
I rejected the light with a USB socket because my light is not attached at the crown. I have a platform rack and the light is attached at the front of that. That would lead to a long usb cable going to whatever I was charging.
So I chose the cycle2charge.de unit. A little larger than a bicycle bell it sits on my handlebars. (Threadless stems can accommodate them inside the top of the stem). Cable runs down to the hub. Minimum impact and almost invisible to a casual thief.
From that I can plug in my Wahoo GPS unit (Garmin didn't work with it - a feature of garmins) or more usually a powerbank either inside my handlebar bag (depending on weather or surface) but usually in an outside pocket where I can see if a cable is loose and monitor the charging progress.
Charging a powerbank and from that a phone etc, is not the most efficient way of charging. Power is lost at both ends of the equation. However, depending on the device, eg phone, it may switch off when you slow down and not restart when you speed up. To my way of thinking, that's not efficient at all!
On a typical day of touring this system will generate enough power to recharge my Wahoo, my phone and still have some juice left over. I also need to recharge a tablet, kindle and rechargeable batteries. (I use the Wahoo mainly for tracking not so much for navigation, so it's always on. I use phone and tablet minimally. The kindle is second on the charging priority list)
I also carry an (old) fold out solar panel from before I had the dynohub. I use it at camp, or if I'm having a lazy day. It's remarkably efficient, especially when stationary. Not so great strapped on the back of a bike - but it will help in an emergency.
Depending on where and when you tour you don't need a dynohub, but I like the freedom of being self sufficient. I noticed in Spain that campsites were starting to charge for charging. I've no problem with that - it just means that you're limited by the opening hours of the office. And there have been some campsites I've been in where I was afraid something would happen to me in the bathrooms, never mind a powerbank!
If you use the same bike for commuting for example, then it deserves more thought.
As for the Dynohub itself? I got the cheapest I could (Shimano) built into the original wheel of my MTB conversion. Nothing wrong with Shimano, but I'm not a fan of the plastic connector. Fine for commuting, not so much for touring.
When I upgraded my wheels, I got a set from SJSCycles with a Son28. Greater distance between servicing than Shimano. My Shimano is now on my commuter.
I carry 2 powerbanks, one large, one small. The idea is that one is charging while the other can simultaneously be used to charge something. Probably overkill, but when I do get the chance for a long socket charge then the big one gets plugged in and I have juice for up to a week.
Hope that didn't muddy the waters!
