What do we do if cars become environmentally friendly?

[downfader]

A very small hammer

You, good Sir, are a GENIUS!

 

[jonesy]

The construct of the fuel cell splits the H from the O. It then goes through a separate process through a "filter" to make the H electron travel a "long way around" that generates electricty. There was a couple of articles on this in New Scientist, The Guardian's enviro blog iirc and wikipedia.

Geothermal is a valid alternative to fuel cell powerstations given the oil drilling technology we now have. If proper investment is made we could have Geothermal up and running on a substantial scale in 5 years.

I think you've missed the point of Adrian's question, which isn't about how the process of electrolysis works, it is where does the energy come from to power the electrolysis?

 

[jonesy]

Do you have any links for this? I only ask because my understanding is that a fuel cell works by combining hydrogen (or sometimes a hydrocarbon) with oxygen to produce electricity, water, and waste heat.

You are quite right, but a fuel cell is basically the reverse of electrolysis, and if suitably designed the same kit can work in both directions, like a rechargeable battery. But, as per my previous post, the fact that hydrogen can be produced by electrolysis from water isn't the point, the problem is it requires energy to split a water molecule, and that energy has to come from somewhere. Otherwise we've got a perpetual motion machine...

 

[GrumpyGregry]

You are quite right, but a fuel cell is basically the reverse of electrolysis, and if suitably designed the same kit can work in both directions, like a rechargeable battery. But, as per my previous post, the fact that hydrogen can be produced by electrolysis from water isn't the point, the problem is it requires energy to split a water molecule, and that energy has to come from somewhere. Otherwise we've got a perpetual motion machine...

why can't we just hook a dynamo up to a motor and let one drive the other!

 

[Angelfishsolo]

This may also be of interest to those discussing the extraction of Hydrogen from Sea Water

 

[subaqua]

For as long as we are on the planet, and pending any major fuel cell technology breakthroughs, and putting aside woeful range and the absence of speed of said vehicles, I suspect any 'eco-cars' available will simply outsource their pollution via the national grid to a fossil fuel burning power station. so not very eco at all really. so not really a problem the current generation of cycle campaigners/promoters will have to face.

would be a great problem to have though.

and don't forget the ecological footprint of extracting all the raw materials requred to make the batteries, proccessing said materials etc.

the same could be said of bicycle manufacture too though but a much lesser extent of course.

 

[blockend]

If vehicles could be made to run on fresh air and were built of self-healing, infinitely recyclable, organic structures, you'd still have the problem of half ton objects travelling fast enough to kill and maim human beings.

 

[Archie_tect]

The hydrogen production plant in the attached article uses an array of approximately 100 mirrors tracking the sun [presumably using electric motors] and cost 7 million euros in 2008, to produce only 3kg of hydrogen, using 30 lites of water, an hour [using zinc and nickel as catalysts to split the water atoms]. The process depends on the sun so cloudy maritime weather could cause havoc. Technology may have advanced in the 3 years since but volume hydrogen production is going to be difficult. Equatorial coastlines would be the best place to site global, commercial plants. Mind you loading, unloading and transporting liquid hydrogen in bulk around the world would a bit dangerous!



Hydrogen production

 

[Bad Company]

As most of you know I love cars.

Having said that for country dwellers car ownership is more or less essential. We have 2 busses a day through my village and the last train left in 1963 courtesy of Dr Beeching. I can't see how increasing taxes on car ownership as proposed earlier would work. For me we need cheap parking at for instance railway stations and reasonable rail fares. That we people are encouraged to take the train. As it is when Mrs BC and I go to London shopping it is easier and cheaper to drive than use the train. Surely it should be the other way around?

 

[Bad Company]

Hence the need to make motoring more expensive.

It makes sense to make trains cheaper and station car parks more affordable. Making cars more expensive will really hurt rural communities. I don't think 'townies' understand how vital cars are in the countryside.

 

[subaqua]

It makes sense to make trains cheaper and station car parks more affordable. Making cars more expensive will really hurt rural communities. I don't think 'townies' understand how vital cars are in the countryside.

don't let my current location fool you.

I grew up in rural North Wales, a local bus service was one bus a day in and one a day out. people used cars when they got cheap and affordable. before that they didn't use them and walked or cycled where they needed to be.

my dad grew up in rural cheshire where there was no bus service locally, the closest bus being 5 miles from the village he grew up in, that took him to the "big town" he used to cycle everywhere. didn't pass his test till he was in his thirties !!

the problem is that WE ALL GOT LAZY. wifey is a prime example , as the youngest starts school next year and she could cycle him to breakfast club and then cycle to her job but she keeps coming up with lame excuses why she can't. ( breaking them down is good fun and she is slowly coming to the idea)

 

[Bad Company]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tell that to the kids today and they won't belive you!


Seriously if you live in Leytonstone I imagine you can get on very well without a car unless you want one. I lived there for a while in my childhood.

Mrs BC and I now live in a village on the Essex \ Suffolk border. We LIKE our cars very much AND they are an essential form of transport. I did consider an electric car as a run around but the range is still very poor.

 

[Bad Company]

It doesn't have to be the way it is now. Cars don't have to be vital anywhere.

And the alternative is ?????

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I was trying to check because that sounded like the plan to me

I was actually hoping someone would remind me of the physics as to why this wouldn't work.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

And the alternative is ?????

When petrol is £5.00 or £50.00 a litre you'll find one.