what is going on here with these two bike saddle companies?

[disabled rider]

OK recently had a bontrager saddle(Saddle Bontrager Suburbia W-light Mens Steel Rail B)
break on me, right around the front mounting screw for the rail. (by the front nose) I went out to buy a replacement seat from a completely different company only to discover that the two saddles have almost IDENTICAL saddle frame. Only difference is the rear shock springs. All the other screw holes and the shape of the saddle frame plus the horizontal springs is identical even the led light from the bontrager saddle fits on the (Body Geometry "expedition plus" saddle)!?!?! bontrager is own by trex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trek_Bicycle_Corporation#Bontrager
and expedition plus is owned by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialized_Bicycle_Components

What I am wondering is who stole who's patent they are primary competitors against each other.
So how did they wind up with the same saddle frame?


and why is the defective designed saddle frame in two saddles made by two completely different companies?

What pisses me off is I was trying to avoid this exact defective design by buying from different company. And to top it off I had to pay 10$ more with no light for the same defective piece of trash sold by another company!

Yes I am taking it back They probably won't allow me to get my money back with the paint scraped a little on the rail where the post holds it.

I am trying to get some facts straight, before reporting this issue, if it is one, to the federal trade commission here in the USA.

I do not like patent infringement especially defective ones.

This kind of stuff makes me really wonder if they aren't just 1 giant company run by just a few of the same people. over seeing the companies. Trying to give us the false impression that its not a monopoly. when in fact it is by simply observing how many products show up with the same parts, but maybe different colors like the craftman rotary tool and the dremmel rotary tool. saw them side by side in Sears the mechanical parts were identical in every way but color. And the two bike saddles I mentioned.

 

[screenman]

They both buy from the same supplier, simple as that. Why did you fit it if you decided it was the same thing and did not want to own it? seems a bit odd.

 

[mattobrien]

Welcome back Disabled Rider, not seen you around these parts for a little while, have you managed to sort out your discrimination issues?

Many assumptions made in your post, including patent infringement. Who says a patent has been infringed, obviously other than your good self? I would have thought that both Trek and Specialized have a team of IP lawyers on standby for this very occasion.

Good luck in taking your saddle back, you might have a job doing that though, seeing as it is now not in saleable condition (the marks you describe).

Saddles can be a very personal choice and hard to get right. A number of bike shops will have loan saddles for you to try before you buy and there is also the Cycle Chat saddle library to help make the right choice.

This might be a better starting point before immediately assuming that there is a global saddle conspiracy designed purely to frustrate and trick you into buying the 'same' saddle (despite the differences you point out) twice.

It can always be dangerous to assume as it tend to make and "ass" out of "u" and "me"

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Branding. Simple as. They don't design the saddles, they go to a maahoosive Taiwanese factory and say "What have you got?" a nice chinese man shows them and they say "We'll have that one, just tweak the finish a bit like this..." job done. I understand every bike company employs clever folk whose job it is to source 'finishing kit'

The patent, if any unique intellectual property is present, probably lies in the hands of none of the protagonists and the patent holder may well have licensed it. It could even be the case that Bontrager Design (Trek subsidiary) own the IP and have licensed it.

 

[mcshroom]

Very much branding. I have a Charge spoon on one bike and a Madison Flux on another, they are nigh on identical as they are both made by the same manufacturer.

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

The modern business model seems to be for "manufacturers" not to make any products themselves but to outsource the manufacturing.

Since about 2000, the vast majority of mass market bikes and accessories for the world markets have been made in Taiwan or in Taiwanese owned factories in China. Because of this many parts are nearly identical and only the branding changes.

When the motor industry first did it they called it "badge engineering".

 

[Boris Bajic]

The modern business model seems to be for "manufacturers" not to make any products themselves but to outsource the manufacturing.

Since about 2000, the vast majority of mass market bikes and accessories for the world markets have been made in Taiwan or in Taiwanese owned factories in China. Because of this many parts are nearly identical and only the branding changes.

When the motor industry first did it they called it "badge engineering".

Yes, although the products produced through Badge Engineering were not sold as the vehicle of a competitor:

Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow and Bentley T
Morris 1100, Austin 1100, Wolseley 1100, Princess Vanden Plas 1100, MG 1100 et al...
Jaguar XJ 6 and XJ12 as opposed to Daimler Sovereign and Double Six.
Most of the US output of GM, Chrysler and Ford divisions for decades.
The list is almost endless.

These days, things have taken a more sinister tone. Rivals and competitors are sharing platforms. Not just those within (for example) Volkswagen Group or PSA or Fiat Group, whom we know to be under large umbrellas, but rivals from completely different (and competing) corporate bodies.

The Ford Ka is a Fiat Panda under the skin.

The Opel Corsa has much in common with the Fiat Punto.

These recent trends are more akin to the sort of thing the OP is drawing to our attention and he is right to be concerned.

A secret organisation uses its foul practices to attract the senior managers of large corporations into its evil web of intrigue and world domination. It has existed for over 65 years and it is getting stronger by the day.

The saddle issue that the OP notices (for which well done, by the way) is just one more example of the devious and evil methods of this dark cabal whose name we dare not mention.

They now dominate the tobacco industry, the cheesecake industry, ice-cream, gin distilleries, fast-food outlets, the production of rubber grommets to soften the door-closing action on medium-priced family cars... Even budget coffees are in their toxic grasp.

Their web of evil extends across the globe.

I, for one, will be buying no more bicycle saddles. These people must be stopped. Ride standing up!

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Yes, although the products produced through Badge Engineering were not sold as the vehicle of a competitor:

Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow and Bentley T
Morris 1100, Austin 1100, Wolseley 1100, Princess Vanden Plas 1100, MG 1100 et al...
Jaguar XJ 6 and XJ12 as opposed to Daimler Sovereign and Double Six.
Most of the US output of GM, Chrysler and Ford divisions for decades.
The list is almost endless.

These days, things have taken a more sinister tone. Rivals and competitors are sharing platforms. Not just those within (for example) Volkswagen Group or PSA or Fiat Group, whom we know to be under large umbrellas, but rivals from completely different (and competing) corporate bodies.

The Ford Ka is a Fiat Panda under the skin.

The Opel Corsa has much in common with the Fiat Punto.

These recent trends are more akin to the sort of thing the OP is drawing to our attention and he is right to be concerned.

A secret organisation uses its foul practices to attract the senior managers of large corporations into its evil web of intrigue and world domination. It has existed for over 65 years and it is getting dstronger by the day.

The saddle issue that the OP notices (for which well done, by the way) is just one more example of the devious and evil methods of this dark cabal whose name we dare not mention.

They now dominate the tobacco industry, the cheesecake industry, ice-cream, gin distilleries, fast-food outlets, the production of rubber grommets to soften the door-closing action on medium-priced family cars... Even budget coffees are in their toxic grasp.

Their web of evil extends across the globe.

I, for one, will be buying no more bicycle saddles. These people must be stopped. Ride standing up!

You forgot to mention tea. That nice cuppa brought to you in the Jaguar showroom is actually rebranded TATA tea.

Shocking!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I, for one, will be buying no more bicycle saddles. These people must be stopped. Ride standing up!

Just buy a Brooks, you can leave it to your grandchildren once the bike has rusted away underneath it.

 

[Crackle]

Just buy a Brooks, you can leave it to your grandchildren once the bike has rusted away underneath it.

Don't you like your grandchildren?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Don't you like your grandchildren?

I haven't any.

I don't like his much though.

 

[Globalti]

All the above is spot on. It is not viable for a brand owner to build a factory so they just go to a saddle factory and get one built to their spec.

I visited a MASSIVE television factory in Jazberenyi, in Hungary. They make TVs for several big brand including Samsung. I asked the factory manager which one was best and he replied "None, they are all built with the same components though if I was forced to choose, I'd go for Samsung".

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Fish, don't forget about the fish!
A Few years ago I had to visit a fish processing plant: out of a conveyor belt fillet of salmon was coming out in packs. The identical packs were then labeled Asda, Tesco, Marks & Sparks, Sainsbury

 

[classic33]

.

 

[Boris Bajic]

.

This is what I was going to say, but you got there first.