What were you doing 45 years ago?

[swansonj]

Adrian, can I just say how much I admire your tenacity?

 

[swansonj]

Thank you

.... whilst despairing at your chances of getting anywhere....

 

[DRHysted]

there isn't a specific problem with false allegation, and there is no justice gap - men are simply not at risk of being falsely convicted

I am soooo going to disagree here. In fact I am adamantly going to disagree here. At this point I am almost shouting at the monitor. I am presuming you lost the ability to read earlier. I am also asuming you have no knowledge of what happens to unlucky fathers who foster teenage girls.

I have experiance and knowledge.

 

[DRHysted]

How many have been falsely convicted?

You don't need to be convicted to be ruined.
I left a job I was damn good at, I lost my home (tied through work), I have no social interactions, and all because some one wanted what I had and thought using a young female was the answer.

And I wasn't accused of rape, mine was only sexual harrasment, and I was INNOCENT.

If they are proven guilty I will willing help castrate them, but until a verdict is in I want them to remain anonymous.

 

[DRHysted]

How many have been falsely convicted?

Are you being

a) an arse
b) intentionally stupid
c) insensitive

I haven't spoken about falsely convicted, but due to experiance, I'll repeat that for the hard of reading EXPERIANCE, I have spoken about falsely accused.
Thankfully I managed to come away clean (it was a very close call, which is quite worrying because I was innocent, I know I keep using that word innocent but I really don't think people are understanding), nothing was ever done to the two females (the one who made the allegation and the one who got her to do it) because they were female and it would look bad (they were both still working for the firm when I left, after working my notice in the same shop!)
I am now 39, I live with my mother, I work unsocial hours in a shoot job (my family has stopped asking me when I'll get a proper job), the last time I went out was the Spring Sportive and you can probably count on one hand how many people I spoke to there, I will never be alone in the same room as a woman. Welcome to the world of falsely accused (notice that word there accused NOT convicted).

 

[asterix]

Is it beyond the bounds of possibility that being falsely accused of rape is as bad for the victim of the accusation as it is for a genuine rape victim?

Obviously there are degrees of severity in either case.

 

[swansonj]

Are you being

a) an arse
b) intentionally stupid
c) insensitive

I haven't spoken about falsely convicted, but due to experiance, I'll repeat that for the hard of reading EXPERIANCE, I have spoken about falsely accused.
Thankfully I managed to come away clean (it was a very close call, which is quite worrying because I was innocent, I know I keep using that word innocent but I really don't think people are understanding), nothing was ever done to the two females (the one who made the allegation and the one who got her to do it) because they were female and it would look bad (they were both still working for the firm when I left, after working my notice in the same shop!)
I am now 39, I live with my mother, I work unsocial hours in a s*** job (my family has stopped asking me when I'll get a proper job), the last time I went out was the Spring Sportive and you can probably count on one hand how many people I spoke to there, I will never be alone in the same room as a woman. Welcome to the world of falsely accused (notice that word there accused NOT convicted).

It is, of course, appalling that your life has been so damaged by a false accusation. I think you'll find that even the people here (including me) who don't feel that negates the much larger body of experience of sexually assaulted women would still be enormously sympathetic.

But can I ask: seems to me that people can get framed for all sorts of crimes they didn't commit and have their lives tragically damaged as a result. Was it intrinsic to your experience that it was a sexual allegation made against you - for instance, could they have set you up for theft from the till, with the same consequences? And do you favour anonymity for all crime accusations? If it is just rape where you favour anonymity, what is it that distinguishes rape from other crimes?

 

[Shortmember]

In 1967 Bill Roach was a major tv star in his early 30's and was probably having to fend women off with a big stick.Why would he put all that in jeopardy by knowingly taking a 15 year old to bed? If he denies the charge,which i'm sure he will, I cannot see the prosecution winning this case unless the incident was actually witnessed by someone who is prepared to come forward 46 years later and testify.

 

[theclaud]

In 1967 Bill Roach was a major tv star in his early 30's and was probably having to fend women off with a big stick.Why would he put all that in jeopardy by knowingly taking a 15 year old to bed? If he denies the charge,which i'm sure he will, I cannot see the prosecution winning this case unless the incident was actually witnessed by someone who is prepared to come forward 46 years later and testify.

FFS.

 

[theclaud]

[QUOTE 2434220, member: 45"]That's where I struggle with what you're saying. It's the "almost every quarter" bit. Can you elaborate?.[/quote]

Police (improving, but it starts from a low baseline)
Courts
Friends and family
The media
The workplace
Social spaces such as pubs
The interwebs...

 

[SquareDaff]

Your OP was about post-Savile historical allegations of sexual assault, and how it's all a "farce". The title is just mealy-mouthed window-dressing for the Café. Whatever you "believe", one party has the right to anonymity and one doesn't for very sound reasons, and as the result of a long struggle to mitigate the fact that the odds are stacked in favour of the rapist and against his victim(s). When you say rape is a "sensitive" issue, the only way it is sensitive for the perpetrators is that they strongly resent being held to account for their actions - it is no more inherently sensitive an accusation than any other crime.

In this country people are innocent until proven guilty - I just believe that innocents should be given the same rights as the victims. Once they're proven guilty then let them feel the full force of peoples wrath. But an innocent person deserves the right to go back to their life as much as the victim deserves justice.

 

[swansonj]

In this country people are innocent until proven guilty - I just believe that innocents should be given the same rights as the victims. Once they're proven guilty then let them feel the full force of peoples wrath. But an innocent person deserves the right to go back to their life as much as the victim deserves justice.

I think your "as much" in that last sentence reveals a lot.

 

[theclaud]

In this country people are innocent until proven guilty - I just believe that innocents should be given the same rights as the victims. Once they're proven guilty then let them feel the full force of peoples wrath. But an innocent person deserves the right to go back to their life as much as the victim deserves justice.

So in the course of this thread you have segued from ignorant bar-room speculation to lofty legal principle. I look forward to your next move. We were talking about anonymity, not innocence. To be named is not to be convicted. I've explained the reasons why victims need the protection of anonymity but it is crucial to identify alleged perpetrators. If you've anything material to add in response then I welcome it, but I am tiring of the lack of substance in your contributions.

 

[SquareDaff]

In 1967 Bill Roach was a major tv star in his early 30's and was probably having to fend women off with a big stick.Why would he put all that in jeopardy by knowingly taking a 15 year old to bed? If he denies the charge,which i'm sure he will, I cannot see the prosecution winning this case unless the incident was actually witnessed by someone who is prepared to come forward 46 years later and testify.

Re: the Bill Roach case - wasn't there an article a few years back where he has bragging about how many women he'd slept with. Can't remember the specifics but seem to remember a figure somewhere near 1000.

 

[SquareDaff]

So in the course of this thread you have segued from ignorant bar-room speculation to lofty legal principle. I look forward to your next move. We were talking about anonymity, not innocence. To be named is not to be convicted. I've explained the reasons why victims need the protection of anonymity but it is crucial to identify alleged perpetrators. If you've anything material to add in response then I welcome it, but I am tiring of the lack of substance in your contributions.

Just as I'm tiring of your trying to ram your POV down my throat even though I've tried to say we should agree to differ at least twice!