glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
What's the legal situation here?
- Thread starter DBrown67
- Start date
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wait4me
Veteran
- Location
- Lincolnshire
A car pulling out of a junction onto a main road can see forwards. What kills cyclists is that when they pull out in front of a cyclist they have not looked sideways first. So to say that he was OK because he could see forwards is nonsense.[/quote]
I totally agree with the "junction" part of your response, but he could have done no more than he did as there was no inside lane for other road users. No nonsense before your comment!!!!!!!
I totally agree with the "junction" part of your response, but he could have done no more than he did as there was no inside lane for other road users. No nonsense before your comment!!!!!!!
Spinney
Bimbleur extraordinaire
- Location
- Back up north
I'm not trying to cast all blame on the taxi driver here -I'm just saying that it would be wiser not to do what he did if he could not check whether anything was coming from the side. Best to look all around...
I'm not going to argue at length about this - we'll just have to agree to disagree!
wait4me
Veteran
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I'll go along with that. Nice to have a difference of opinion without any toys being thrown out of the pram
Sara_H
Guru
I totally agree with the "junction" part of your response, but he could have done no more than he did as there was no inside lane for other road users. No nonsense before your comment!!!!!!![/quote]
It doesn't matter if there was an inside lane, filtering on the inside is legal and acceptable, lane or not, and anyone turning across a space should anticipate that this may be the case. Driving into a space you can not see to be clear is not advisable.
wait4me
Veteran
- Location
- Lincolnshire
It doesn't matter if there was an inside lane, filtering on the inside is legal and acceptable, lane or not, and anyone turning across a space should anticipate that this may be the case. Driving into a space you can not see to be clear is not advisable.[/quote]
Not without there being a designated lane to do so safely
Equally applicable to the cyclist
Not without there being a designated lane to do so safely
Equally applicable to the cyclist
Your first point is wrong. Filtering is completely legal, regardless of whether there is a lane there.
The cyclist should have slowed down approaching the junction, anticipating that a driver might be turning into the side road, but equally, the driver shouldn't have proceeded if they couldn't see that it was clear to do so.
gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
From my experience with the law and these types of situations is the another lane being there shifts the responsibility.
If you have a cycle lane, bus lane or general traffic lane that the turning vehicle has to cross, hitting anything because you didn't check is solely that vehicles responsibility.
However, if there is no lane then some of the responsibility shifts on to the road user that is filtering, as we are expected to filter with care. And part of that is being prepared to stop and checking for other cars pulling out of junctions.
If you have a cycle lane, bus lane or general traffic lane that the turning vehicle has to cross, hitting anything because you didn't check is solely that vehicles responsibility.
However, if there is no lane then some of the responsibility shifts on to the road user that is filtering, as we are expected to filter with care. And part of that is being prepared to stop and checking for other cars pulling out of junctions.
Archie_tect
De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
- Location
- Northumberland
Gaz, that is how I react to this too.
The van driver left a gap in the stationary line of traffic at the entry point to a clear side junction to leave the junction sufficiently wide and clear for another vehicle to cross his path into the side road, so the cyclist in approaching the junction where a gap had been left should have had the presence of mind to anticipate a vehicle crossing his path when the other vehicles on his side of the carriageway were stationary...
'Concentrate' on the road ahead,
'Observe' the constantly changing circumstances,
'Anticipate' what is and what maybe about to happen,
give yourself 'Space' to react,
and give yourself enough 'Time' to deal with it....
[COAST- standard Police Driving/Advanced Motorist guidance]
The taxi driver did all of these because he prevented the accident by his actions and caution, the cyclist did not. If the carriageway had been marked out with a yellow box would the cyclist have been expected to approach slowly because technically the way ahead was stopped by traffic and he was filtering? ... yes... if he had a separate lane then yes his way was clear, without a separate lane he is filtering which is a bonus- the cyclist should anticipate having to stop/ adjust his speed to suit the road conditions- no-one should ever approach an obstacle so fast that they can't stop within the distance they can see. The taxi was edging slowly, the cyclist was not.
I was driving to Gosforth yesterday and sitting in a queue of stationary traffic, approached a pedestrian crossing.... I left a car length between the front of my car and the crossing in case anyone wanted to cross while I was waiting as is normal and expected.... only 2 bikes filtering up the inside of the queue made any attempt to slow down or stop at the crossing and in one case had to swerve around an old man on the crossing because the cyclist couldn't stop in time. Scary stuff. Had I stopped right up at the crossing edge none of the cyclists [apart from the 2 who were concentrating] would have had any time to react to pedestrians on the crossing at all.
The van driver left a gap in the stationary line of traffic at the entry point to a clear side junction to leave the junction sufficiently wide and clear for another vehicle to cross his path into the side road, so the cyclist in approaching the junction where a gap had been left should have had the presence of mind to anticipate a vehicle crossing his path when the other vehicles on his side of the carriageway were stationary...
'Concentrate' on the road ahead,
'Observe' the constantly changing circumstances,
'Anticipate' what is and what maybe about to happen,
give yourself 'Space' to react,
and give yourself enough 'Time' to deal with it....
[COAST- standard Police Driving/Advanced Motorist guidance]
The taxi driver did all of these because he prevented the accident by his actions and caution, the cyclist did not. If the carriageway had been marked out with a yellow box would the cyclist have been expected to approach slowly because technically the way ahead was stopped by traffic and he was filtering? ... yes... if he had a separate lane then yes his way was clear, without a separate lane he is filtering which is a bonus- the cyclist should anticipate having to stop/ adjust his speed to suit the road conditions- no-one should ever approach an obstacle so fast that they can't stop within the distance they can see. The taxi was edging slowly, the cyclist was not.
I was driving to Gosforth yesterday and sitting in a queue of stationary traffic, approached a pedestrian crossing.... I left a car length between the front of my car and the crossing in case anyone wanted to cross while I was waiting as is normal and expected.... only 2 bikes filtering up the inside of the queue made any attempt to slow down or stop at the crossing and in one case had to swerve around an old man on the crossing because the cyclist couldn't stop in time. Scary stuff. Had I stopped right up at the crossing edge none of the cyclists [apart from the 2 who were concentrating] would have had any time to react to pedestrians on the crossing at all.
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wait4me
Veteran
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Well I'd like to thank everyone's input on this. Some good points made all round and I think Gaz is on the same wavelength as me. Had there been another designated lane, either a bus lane or cycle lane then yes, it would have been my fault entirely.
But this wasn't the case. I didn't edge out either. That gives the impression of stop/starting. I just proceeded slowly. Once the bike appeared I slammed on... albeit at a few miles per hour but the cyclist did make me jump. Had the cyclist been a few yards further down the road could he have stopped? You'll need to take my word for it that he most definitely would not. We are talking at most two yards of view once he came from the blind side of the van to my bonnet.
I reckon 50/50 seems to be most likely outcome, but I'd be slightly aggrieved at that. I could have waited till the van came past but that means I'm keeping any traffic behind me waiting. The bus lane is not active at peak times in the morning, but it is in the afternoon. So in non active times people tend to park on that side, so traffic behind me would not have been able to get past me on the inside. But that's just me making a case of blocking my road, and to be fair it's not something that would cross my mind at the time. It's only when you analyse the situation at the keyboard like this you start thinking of that kind of stuff as mitigating circs.
I accept the comments about flashing lights to let people through. I know the highway code states flashing of lights to mean simply "I am here". But we all know 99% of drivers take it to mean "go ahead of me". One point I would make though is that the van flashing his lights could possibly be seen in the reflection of vehicles ahead. Not saying this is 100% certain but it's feasible, certainly in dark conditions. Surely that can only help a cyclist filtering on the left. It's something extra they may see. I'd like to hope that any cyclists seeing the reflection of flashed lights ahead would not simply think "Oh he's just letting someone know he's there" and press on regardless.
But this wasn't the case. I didn't edge out either. That gives the impression of stop/starting. I just proceeded slowly. Once the bike appeared I slammed on... albeit at a few miles per hour but the cyclist did make me jump. Had the cyclist been a few yards further down the road could he have stopped? You'll need to take my word for it that he most definitely would not. We are talking at most two yards of view once he came from the blind side of the van to my bonnet.
I reckon 50/50 seems to be most likely outcome, but I'd be slightly aggrieved at that. I could have waited till the van came past but that means I'm keeping any traffic behind me waiting. The bus lane is not active at peak times in the morning, but it is in the afternoon. So in non active times people tend to park on that side, so traffic behind me would not have been able to get past me on the inside. But that's just me making a case of blocking my road, and to be fair it's not something that would cross my mind at the time. It's only when you analyse the situation at the keyboard like this you start thinking of that kind of stuff as mitigating circs.
I accept the comments about flashing lights to let people through. I know the highway code states flashing of lights to mean simply "I am here". But we all know 99% of drivers take it to mean "go ahead of me". One point I would make though is that the van flashing his lights could possibly be seen in the reflection of vehicles ahead. Not saying this is 100% certain but it's feasible, certainly in dark conditions. Surely that can only help a cyclist filtering on the left. It's something extra they may see. I'd like to hope that any cyclists seeing the reflection of flashed lights ahead would not simply think "Oh he's just letting someone know he's there" and press on regardless.
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clockman
Über Member
- Location
- Mole Valley
@DBrown67, the cyclist was obviously not paying attention, obviously in a world of his own. Luckily for you and him you appeared to be aware and alert.
One day, they will end up at A & E, this time he will not cause someone else to have sleepless nights due to the accident that resulted from their idiocy.
Glad to hear your a private hire taxi, rather than a hackney carriage. There is a vast difference in the driving standards between the two, not just the operation regulations. But, I'm sure you are all too aware of the differences in driving. I don't think many would no the difference.
Also glad that you don't appear to be offended by those that take the cyclists point of view, no matter what!
I also hope that you will have come to see that some cyclists are offended by other cyclists giving the majority a bad name.
One day, they will end up at A & E, this time he will not cause someone else to have sleepless nights due to the accident that resulted from their idiocy.
Glad to hear your a private hire taxi, rather than a hackney carriage. There is a vast difference in the driving standards between the two, not just the operation regulations. But, I'm sure you are all too aware of the differences in driving. I don't think many would no the difference.
Also glad that you don't appear to be offended by those that take the cyclists point of view, no matter what!
I also hope that you will have come to see that some cyclists are offended by other cyclists giving the majority a bad name.
- Location
- the post-brexit wasteland
i've been in the same position as the op, except on my bike. i was wanting to turn right into my road when a car stopped to let me (traffic was queueing) so i turned and got hit by a cyclist belting down the inside.
no harm done to either cyclist or bike, so hands were shaken and lessons learned.
in fairness to the op, no harm was done and both they and the cyclist are hopefully now more aware and will handle the situation differently. and, to join a cycling forum and genuinely as opinion of cyclists about the matter, displays an attitude that if more road users shared, we'd spend less time bitching about drivers, and they us…
no harm done to either cyclist or bike, so hands were shaken and lessons learned.
in fairness to the op, no harm was done and both they and the cyclist are hopefully now more aware and will handle the situation differently. and, to join a cycling forum and genuinely as opinion of cyclists about the matter, displays an attitude that if more road users shared, we'd spend less time bitching about drivers, and they us…
Dave 123
Legendary Member
- Location
- Cambridgeshire alps
My wife had a similar incident a couple of weeks ago. The cyclist hit the car and came off.
He was travelling at speed.
When she got out to see if he was ok he admitted he was going too quick down the inside of standing traffic, and that she didn't have much of a chance.
He was very reasonable about it.
I told her if it was me I'd have walloped her and done some swearing
He was travelling at speed.
When she got out to see if he was ok he admitted he was going too quick down the inside of standing traffic, and that she didn't have much of a chance.
He was very reasonable about it.
I told her if it was me I'd have walloped her and done some swearing
growingvegetables
Guru
- Location
- Leeds
Growingvegetables heaves sigh of relief and sends thumbs-up!
Seriously - I KNOW that we are pretty spoiled in Leeds; I just need to go "across the border" into Bradford - and that's another world. Generally speaking the standard of driving I get from private hire drivers is at least good, often superb; and occasionally it's just stunningly good.Aye - and generally far better than the "proper" taxis. Whoever thought letting those into bus lanes was an idiot.
Apologies for muddying the waters!
