Wheel set upgrade

[Justinslow]

No, same computer, two partitions on the hard disc. He runs Linux, I run Windows. I'm faster, but he's more open. Or so they say.
It cracks me up how you still perpetuate the old myths and like to convince yourself that your money spent on shiny red wheels really gives you benefits.

Ok let's go back to this one - my old R501's and cheap road tyres, they are a dependable budget option, but why don't you see Tour de France riders running them? Are they not getting performance benefits from a higher spec wheel and tyre? And finally why can't I (or you) also get performance benefits from a higher spec wheel and tyre?

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Ok let's go back to this one - my old R501's and cheap road tyres, they are a dependable budget option, but why don't you see Tour de France riders running them? Are they not getting performance benefits from a higher spec wheel and tyre? And finally why can't I (or you) also get performance benefits from a higher spec wheel and tyre?

Their performance gain is seconds over 30, 40+ hours. Losing 1 second every 10 hours is a massive difference.

Though their main gains are in aerodynamics performance rather than just being lighter.

They're also close to the limit of human performance, plus a perfectly controlled diet and training plan.

Going to the toilet before a race, rather than after it, will make more difference than wheel weight

 

[Cyclist33]

But you don't have enough data to be able to tell what effect the wheels have had. Wait until you stop getting quicker and become consistent, then change your wheelset. That's the test.

True-r. But even then there are too many variables.

(Tip: you don't have to be a scientist to know that.)

 

[bpsmith]

How do you suggest the old chain lost power? And I don't understand the term "far more direct." Can you perhaps express it in some units of measurement for us?

How does anything not perform so well when it wears? I am surprised by you particularly asking this question. You seem to have all the answers most of the time...

My bike felt more responsive when pedaling with the new chain than the old chain, over the same roads as I always cycle on with the same varying conditions. Why do you need some form of measurement for absolutely everything?

Ok, my grin went from the usual smirk at about 62.4mm wide to a rather amusing grin at 78.8mm wide. That's a 26.28% increase.

 

[Justinslow]

But you don't have enough data to be able to tell what effect the wheels have had. Wait until you stop getting quicker and become consistent, then change your wheelset. That's the test.

That is a good point! And one day I will hit a wall (not literally) but until then I'm trying everything i can to go faster, and I repeat I have never said my wheels have contributed to all my improvements, that would be just plain daft.

 

[Spoked Wheels]

I can't believe that people still debate about why they upgrade a set of wheels

Reading this thread reminded me a little "conversation" I had with my brother when I first decided to upgrade the TV set....
if went something like this: (we were both watching TV on a Sunday)

Me: I'm thinking about upgrading the TV
Him: What's wrong with this TV?
Me: Nothing is wrong with it but I fancy one a little bigger, I think a 42" would fit here nicely
Him: How will you benefit from a TV that is 6" bigger?
Me: I just think it would be nicer, I've seen them in the shops. Stop being a pain in the backside or words to that effect

My guess is that for the first few weeks he used my TV more than I did and a few months later he bought a bigger TV

Not every upgrade needs to be justified in mathematical terms. Some people can afford to upgrade their car every two years, simply cause they don't want to drive a 3 year old car I have no problems with that.... I wish I could afford to do that myself

 

[Cyclist33]

How does anything not perform so well when it wears? I am surprised by you particularly asking this question. You seem to have all the answers most of the time...

My bike felt more responsive when pedaling with the new chain than the old chain, over the same roads as I always cycle on with the same varying conditions. Why do you need some form of measurement for absolutely everything?

Ok, my grin went from the usual smirk at about 62.4mm wide to a rather amusing grin at 78.8mm wide. That's a 26.28% increase.

Because when attempting to convince someone that a new chain is worth investing in, the simple "I felt it was better" is about as compelling a piece of evidence as you can't get.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

Not every upgrade needs to be justified in mathematical terms. Some people can afford to upgrade their car every two years, simply cause they don't want to drive a 3 year old car I have no problems with that.... I wish I could afford to do that myself

I entirely agree.

It's nice to buy something, because you like it, want it, and can afford it. There often doesn't need to be a reason, but OP stated that the wheels specifically made him faster.

It's like upgrading your car because you want a new car, but then justifying that the new car saves 1mpg over the old car, in different weather conditions, because the new car is 5kg lighter.

 

[Justinslow]

Their performance gain is seconds over 30, 40+ hours. Losing 1 second every 10 hours is a massive difference.

Though their main gains are in aerodynamics performance rather than just being lighter.

They're also close to the limit of human performance, plus a perfectly controlled diet and training plan.

Going to the toilet before a race, rather than after it, will make more difference than wheel weight

My wheels are lighter and semi aero!

 

[Cyclist33]

I can't believe that people still debate about why they upgrade a set of wheels

Reading this thread reminded me a little "conversation" I had with my brother when I first decided to upgrade the TV set....
if went something like this: (we were both watching TV on a Sunday)

Me: I'm thinking about upgrading the TV
Him: What's wrong with this TV?
Me: Nothing is wrong with it but I fancy one a little bigger, I think a 42" would fit here nicely
Him: How will you benefit from a TV that is 6" bigger?
Me: I just think it would be nicer, I've seen them in the shops. Stop being a pain in the backside or words to that effect

My guess is that for the first few weeks he used my TV more than I did and a few months later he bought a bigger TV

Not every upgrade needs to be justified in mathematical terms. Some people can afford to upgrade their car every two years, simply cause they don't want to drive a 3 year old car I have no problems with that.... I wish I could afford to do that myself

Of course you're probably right but the issue that has sparked so much of this kind of debate recently is that people who should have been content with saying "I bought this because I liked the look of it" have not stopped there but have insisted that the purchase somehow improved their performance.

None of them have been able to substantiate such claims.

On a side note, I would have contested the larger telly too but on the grounds that the image quality is £ for £ usually worse on a larger telly, assuming you don't move your sofa further away and aren't watching every single programme in HD or 4K. I experienced this with my sister's new 47 incher.

 

[bpsmith]

Because when attempting to convince someone that a new chain is worth investing in, the simple "I felt it was better" is about as compelling a piece of evidence as you can't get.

It's equally as compelling as most of the scientific links that are posted, or pasted as their own, to many topics of this nature. Scientific proof is ONLY compelling if it actually proves beyond doubt that the argument in question cannot be refuted. Just because another link isn't posted or available doesn't mean that the first link is actually correct.

Look back at all the Science that has been accepted in the past and turns out to be utter rubbish. I have failed to cycle off the edge of the planet yet, but that was Science until somebody decided to prove otherwise. Doesn't mean it was actually correct up until that point.

 

[bpsmith]

Of course you're probably right but the issue that has sparked so much of this kind of debate recently is that people who should have been content with saying "I bought this because I liked the look of it" have not stopped there but have insisted that the purchase somehow improved their performance.

None of them have been able to substantiate such claims.

On a side note, I would have contested the larger telly too but on the grounds that the image quality is £ for £ usually worse on a larger telly, assuming you don't move your sofa further away and aren't watching every single programme in HD or 4K. I experienced this with my sister's new 47 incher.

You're assuming that they spent the same £ for £ on the bigger TV. Perhaps they spent more, like most of us do when "upgrading" our bikes.

 

[Cyclist33]

Considering the tv she had before that was a 27 inch CRT she inherited from a previous tenant, and the new one cost over £500, I would say she spent a bit more!

 

[winjim]

It's equally as compelling as most of the scientific links that are posted, or pasted as their own, to many topics of this nature. Scientific proof is ONLY compelling if it actually proves beyond doubt that the argument in question cannot be refuted. Just because another link isn't posted or available doesn't mean that the first link is actually correct.

Look back at all the Science that has been accepted in the past and turns out to be utter rubbish. I have failed to cycle off the edge of the planet yet, but that was Science until somebody decided to prove otherwise. Doesn't mean it was actually correct up until that point.

You're not a scientist are you.

 

[winjim]

True-r. But even then there are too many variables.

(Tip: you don't have to be a scientist to know that.)

Well, if you do enough replicates, say ride the same course like a hundred times or something, that should correct for a few factors...