Which Gravel - Forme Monsal 2 or Vitus Substance 2?

[Emanresu]

There are a few Forme Monsal 2 floating about due to the demise of Moore and Large but the prices (£700) seem out of kilter with the spec. Chain Reaction offering a similar spec to the Forme for £200 less. The only difference I can see is a 1 x 10 or 2 x 8. Looking for something for touring as my MTB can be a bit slow on roads.

By way of background, I don't spend a lot on my touring set up after having to leave a MTB behind when I blew up a derailleur on a hill in the middle of France. Words you don't want to hear in a French LBS "Désolé monsieur, nous n'avons pas cette pièce et sa réparation coûtera très cher."

So looking for a solid gravel bike or one with standard parts.

 

[Jameshow]

Swings and roundabouts tbh.
£200 for a better spec bike but from a deceased manufacturer??

 

[vickster]

Could also look at the Merlin Malt eg
https://www.merlincycles.com/merlin-malt-g2-claris-gravel-bike-2023-197226.html
https://www.merlincycles.com/merlin-malt-g2p-tiagra-gravel-bike-2023-197427.html (not all sizes)

they have other gravel options too

 

[Emanresu]

The Merlin looks good but I had a smile at their attempts at bigging up their products. There is a pic on their site that not only shows a flaw in the paintwork but also a circle round it. Wonder if they haven't paid the web designer's bill yet?

 

[Cycleops]

Swings and roundabouts tbh.
£200 for a better spec bike but from a deceased manufacturer??

Nowt wrong with that, as long the rider isn’t it could be a good buy.

The Vitus looks like a good buy despite the budget specs. The only items you might want to replace straight away are the tyres which will likely have poor puncture resistance.

 

[wafter]

That Forme doesn't seem like great value at all given the groupset and fact that the brand is kaput. Since when buying a product your warranty contract is with the supplying retailer, I wonder what would happen in the case of a claim?

The Merlin looks like far better value, although I've had not-great experiences with them personally, the paint defect thing is a bit odd / off-putting and personally I'd never buy another ally bike.

Somewhat off-piste but in your position I think I'd be looking at a used Genesis Croix de Fer (I have one and it's very good)..

 

[vickster]

Maybe look at the Sonder range from Alpkit, they also have some ex display deals if you’re close to their stores.
https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-bikes
https://alpkit.com/collections/sonder-bike-clearance
For touring bikes, always check out Spa too

 

[Emanresu]

That Forme doesn't seem like great value at all given the groupset and fact that the brand is kaput. Since when buying a product your warranty contract is with the supplying retailer, I wonder what would happen in the case of a claim?

The Merlin looks like far better value, although I've had not-great experiences with them personally, the paint defect thing is a bit odd / off-putting and personally I'd never buy another ally bike.

Somewhat off-piste but in your position I think I'd be looking at a used Genesis Croix de Fer (I have one and it's very good)..

No Forme for me then as they are hitting prices that seem stupid.

The Croix de Fer looks close to what I'd prefer but may have to up my budget. I have Tekto hydraulic brakes on one of my bikes and they have been solid especially when going on long downhill section or when White Van Men brake without notice . So leaning towards the hydraulic and 1x groupset. Luckily there is a Genesis dealer close by so will go and bother them with questions. They may even have a demo for sale if I am lucky.

 

[wafter]

No Forme for me then as they are hitting prices that seem stupid.

The Croix de Fer looks close to what I'd prefer but may have to up my budget. I have Tekto hydraulic brakes on one of my bikes and they have been solid especially when going on long downhill section or when White Van Men brake without notice . So leaning towards the hydraulic and 1x groupset. Luckily there is a Genesis dealer close by so will go and bother them with questions. They may even have a demo for sale if I am lucky.

Cool and yeah - new they're a fair wedge more than your budget, but you'd get one used for that. Not looked recently but they seemed to be holding their value fairly well compared to some other areas of the market which had seen a significant drop in used values.

All that said I don't think you'll get 1x off the shelf on a CdF (personally I'm not a fan anyway) while Genesis hold out on fitting full hydro until the CdF 40, which is well over £2k list - very poor form IMO.

FWIW the hydro entry point used to be the 30, which when I bought mine (2020) was £2k list but some dealers were selling for significantly less. Mine came from De Ver Cycles and I was very happy with both the price and service. They have some in stock / discounted but they're higher-end and nothing that immediately fits your requirements.

Here's the thread on my 30 if it's of any interest. 2020 was the last year they fitted full hydro on this model and yes, it's very good

Used 30s seem to depreciate a bit more than the lower-spec 20s but there are a lot fewer of them about; probably because they were quite a lot more expensive when new.

 

[bluenotebob]

Possibly not the right place to post this .. but here’s a query regarding a specific gravel bike.

I’m hopeful of acquiring a KTM X-Strada 20 gravel bike in the next few weeks. It’s similar to the Genesis Croix de Fer that @wafter has (or had).

Aluminium frame and carbon forks .. 2x10 (or 2x11, I’ve forgotten which) gearing .. and 40mm tyres.

Image and link below

There’s a more expensive X-Strada 20 which includes a rear luggage rack. I can see it’s a brilliant accessory if you’re going shopping on the bike. I’m not sure that I would – I only do a supermarket shop once or twice a month and I do that in my van (6 x 2 litre bottles of water etc are really not practical on the back of a bike). How useful would a luggage rack be for 4 or 5 hour rides? I currently carry everything I need in a day bag on my back … camera, food, phone, maps etc. I’d prefer an alternative to that – and perhaps a luggage rack would be ideal – but I wondered what the trade-off is in terms of additional weight on the bike..? Anyone got any views?

The bike that I’ve seen has 40mm tyres – that seems unnecessarily fat for what I have in mind … canal towpaths, gravelled greenways etc. You made a comment somewhere @wafter (sorry I can’t remember where I read it) – about running 35mm tyres – but wanting something bigger. Why was that?

Thanks in advance to anyone who has any comments to offer

X-STRADA 20 - KTM Bikes (ktm-bikes.at)

 

[Cycleops]

You've answered your own question re the rack. If you carry everything you need in your day bag why get a rack,?
I have 40c tyres on my gravel bike and they can handle everything from tarmac to rough hard and soft ground with adjustments to tyre pressures. You're not going to notice much difference with 35c tyres.

 

[bluenotebob]

You've answered your own question re the rack. If you carry everything you need in your day bag why get a rack,?
I have 40c tyres on my gravel bike and they can handle everything from tarmac to rough hard and soft ground with adjustments to tyre pressures. You're not going to notice much difference with 35c tyres.

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry .. I didn't explain the point about the day bag properly. I've noticed that on longish rides (say over 5 hours) on my road bike (with drops), the day bag has caused me some shoulder ache/pain... but I've never had that problem with long rides on one of my bikes with flat handlebars.

As the X-Strada has drops, it occurred to me that on a long ride maybe a luggage rack would alleviate the day bag/shoulder problem. But I was wary about having extra weight at the rear of the bike.

It's something I can discuss with my friend at the LBS next week.

I did wonder whether the extra tyre width would make any difference .. thanks for your thoughts.

 

[wafter]

The bike that I’ve seen has 40mm tyres – that seems unnecessarily fat for what I have in mind … canal towpaths, gravelled greenways etc. You made a comment somewhere @wafter (sorry I can’t remember where I read it) – about running 35mm tyres – but wanting something bigger. Why was that?

I can't remember the specific statement now, but generally I think some fatter tyres might be a bit more capable / comfortable on rougher terrain. The slick 35s are great on lightish ground - crap road surfaces, gravel, surfaced tow paths etc. Obviously performance in mud is down to the tread more than the size..

When the CdF came out its max (IIRC) of 37mm tyres would have been pretty significant compared to road offerings; now they're not far off what you'd expect at the fat end of road. I think this is about as large as I can go with the mudguards fitted; could probably push it out a bit further on 650Bs without guards.

I think Genesis state capability for larger tyres on more recent modes (45mm rear, 50mm front on 700c rims), although I'm not sure if they've changed the frame to accommodate these or have just massaged the figures for marketing reasons.

 

[Grant Fondo]

The bike that I’ve seen has 40mm tyres – that seems unnecessarily fat for what I have in mind … canal towpaths, gravelled greenways etc.

A bit of personal preference maybe? I've used 38mm with tread and 32mm slicks on that sort of terrain and the latter have stayed on for 3 years. Probably due to rides being a mix of road and tracks/towpaths, oh, and enjoying the technical part of narrower tyres offroad

 

[T4tomo]

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry .. I didn't explain the point about the day bag properly. I've noticed that on longish rides (say over 5 hours) on my road bike (with drops), the day bag has caused me some shoulder ache/pain... but I've never had that problem with long rides on one of my bikes with flat handlebars.

As the X-Strada has drops, it occurred to me that on a long ride maybe a luggage rack would alleviate the day bag/shoulder problem. But I was wary about having extra weight at the rear of the bike.

It's something I can discuss with my friend at the LBS next week.

I did wonder whether the extra tyre width would make any difference .. thanks for your thoughts.

don't worry about a rack, get a frame bag for the times when you want more carrying capacity.