Who else uses flat pedals?

[MacB]

Again, specialist choices. For me clipless are better. You can do what you like... ...you won't catch me describing your choice as garbage.

I didn't describe your choices as garbage I described your level of hyperbole as garbage...I'm quite happy with your choice of pedals when it enters my concious at all...what I'm not happy with is the intimation that death and destruction, or at least never ending pain, awaits the users of flat pedals...and yes that is exagerrated for effect. I also have a sneaking suspicion that many denigrating flat pedal use for anything other than short shopping jaunts, probably don't have the level of specific experience, or the pedalling technique, to be able to comment accurately. In other words they are guessing and colouring those guesses with a huge dollop of personal bias.

In fact for such a serious cyclist as yourself I'd probably suggest that flat pedals probably aren't the best choice.

 

[lulubel]

Going back to that very interesting link posted a few days ago ..... Here it is again, for the sake of reference:

This is probably worth reading too.

For most people who feel like they can't (or at least really, really hate to) use anything other than clipless, I suspect there's an element of loss of confidence and feeling less secure on the bike in flats, which would explain VamP's loss of speed when using them.

I have a 10 mile route that I use as my benchmark, which I was training on, with both kind of pedals. I have direct comparisons of the same route on same day, same bike, same weather, clipless and flat. About 1 mph difference. Enough to annoy the hell out of me.

If you're used to being clipped in, I can imagine how unsafe it must feel if you're trying to really go for it with flats, and how you'd probably unconsciously hold back a little. I'm certainly not going to argue that flats can be slippery in the wet, and the first time I thought about going clipless was after a particularly unpleasant commute in the rain when my foot slipped off at a particularly dangerous and scary moment. (At the time, I wasn't aware of strapless toeclips, and I'd tried the type with straps, and didn't get on with them at all.) So, I can understand the benefit of clipless when going flat out, or riding in less than dry conditions - like commuting in the rain, or cyclocross.

But, for those of us who are "just" leisure riders, and don't have any goals or challenges other than riding for pleasure, whether to use clipless, clips or flats is entirely personal choice because the only difference is going to be how it makes us feel (since that's the only thing that matters to us).

 

[youngoldbloke]

But, for those of us who are "just" leisure riders, and don't have any goals or challenges other than riding for pleasure, whether to use clipless, clips or flats is entirely personal choice because the only difference is going to be how it makes us feel (since that's the only thing that matters to us).

It doesn't prove or disprove anything but the (experienced) leisure riders on the club leisure rides that ride on flats are the ones we always have to wait for at the top of the hill - and the one who has recently embraced clipless pedals now waits for them too.

 

[Psyclist]

I'm using cage pedals at the moment, not clips or straps on them, they feel okay for what I do...

On the note of flat/caged pedals, what would you say are the best flats to ride in for grip and durability? as I won't be having clipless until later on....

 

[MacB]

It doesn't prove or disprove anything but the (experienced) leisure riders on the club leisure rides that ride on flats are the ones we always have to wait for at the top of the hill - and the one who has recently embraced clipless pedals now waits for them too.

too many variables, if you're talking steep out of the saddle climbing then there are definite benefits to being attached to the pedal, I noticed them myself when using them. I didn't notice the same differences for seated climbing, but I believe there's also a difference when hammering or sprinting...I don't really do either so can't tell on that front.

On an anecdotal level I have been on leisure rides where most people waited for me and where few people waited for me and I waited for others...the main difference being my weight and personal fitness. I don't enjoy the experience of having others wait on me and generally try to get my fitness to the required standard or arrange bail out options for myself...I'm pretty self sufficient. But if it ever comes to the point where it's a matter of equipment then I'll make a judgement call then.

 

[Banjo]

Use whatever your happy with but don't write off flat pedals as only suitable for short rides. People do Paris Brest Paris on them which is 1200 kms. Personally I do regular 200 km rides quite happilly on them and haven't noticed any overall loss of speed. For touring it avoids the need to carry extra shoes.on Audax rides I would say most but certainly not all riders are using clipped in pedals,some prefer toestraps and some are on flats. Use what U like not what fashion and marketting tells you is best.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Use what U like not what fashion and marketting tells you is best.

The triumph of fashion and marketing since the 1890s - the development of clips and straps, evolving into clipless in the 1970s! Gullible cyclists fooled for over 100 years!
Use whatever you are comfortable with, but don't dismiss them without trying them, and don't accuse those who use them of being fashion slaves.

 

[VamP]

But, for those of us who are "just" leisure riders, and don't have any goals or challenges other than riding for pleasure, whether to use clipless, clips or flats is entirely personal choice because the only difference is going to be how it makes us feel (since that's the only thing that matters to us).

Sure. And to be fair, my beloved doesn't suffer the same degree of flat aversion that I do, although she rides clipless and flats in equal measure.

I would like to set in context that I have 30 odd years of flat riding behind me, and only converted to clipless about a year ago. No going back for me though.

 

[VamP]

I didn't describe your choices as garbage I described your level of hyperbole as garbage...I'm quite happy with your choice of pedals when it enters my concious at all...what I'm not happy with is the intimation that death and destruction, or at least never ending pain, awaits the users of flat pedals...and yes that is exagerrated for effect. I also have a sneaking suspicion that many denigrating flat pedal use for anything other than short shopping jaunts, probably don't have the level of specific experience, or the pedalling technique, to be able to comment accurately. In other words they are guessing and colouring those guesses with a huge dollop of personal bias.

In fact for such a serious cyclist as yourself I'd probably suggest that flat pedals probably aren't the best choice.

I've been riding flats (with AND without various straps contraptions for over 30 years). Is describing my feelings at the prospect of riding the slow bike in the house any further than 5 miles really hyperbole? Oh and it's slow for a number of reasons, not just the fact it has flats

 

[MacB]

I've been riding flats (with AND without various straps contraptions for over 30 years). Is describing my feelings at the prospect of riding the slow bike in the house any further than 5 miles really hyperbole? Oh and it's slow for a number of reasons, not just the fact it has flats

Yes it is hyperbole as the level of anguish was directed at the flats rather than a group of variables. The intimation being that the 'wonderdrug' was the only thing that could make a poor bike bearable.

Look you're clearly in the born again evangelical phase and my naturally cynical instincts are to add a large pinch of salt. For example you indicated that you did the same local 10 mile ride with the variables ironed out bar the use of flat v clipless pedals. For you this made a 1mph difference which was enough 'to annoy the hell out of you'. Yet reading more closely indicates that they weren't plain flats but flats with clips, so your feet were still attached. So that rings alarm bells, though I accept that it could simply be a case of not having all the info. I can see 1mph(or more) clipless v flats, depending on riding style and pedalling technique, but struggle to see 1mph clipless v toeclips.

I realise that I come across as some evangelical flatty myself but that's not the case, It rarely crosses my mind when I'm riding and I rarely notice what other people are wearing on their feet. However my personal experience has indicated that the pros and cons, as generally expressed via web and anecdata, are inaccurate with heavy bias. I've never noticed, or suffered from, the list of negatives associated with flat pedals and trotted out like some sort of absolute truth:-

feet will slip - mine don't
shins will be gashed - mine are scar free
feet will get sore - nope
long distances are impossible or highly uncomfortable - nonsense
you can't pedal properly - I feel fine
you can't climb hills - I can

I also call bullshit on some of the claims around clipless systems:-

it's night and day difference - not really or at least not for me
once tried you'll never go back - sorry not true
the feeling of being attached to the bike is fantastic - again not my experience I didn't like it
clipless moments are funny - I didn't think so and a cursory net search will turn up some rather serious injuries
pros use them so they must be the best - pros are a different species and shouldn't be used for comparative purposes by any other than those seeking to emulate what they do
pedal attachment has been around for 100+ years so it's not fad or fashion - no-one ever said it was, what was actually said was that it can be fad/fashion for riders that will never be able to extract the full level of benefit they offer

Now I freely acknowledge the climbing superiority out of the saddle and am happy to admit the hard riding/sprint capabilities. I also happily admit that I may use clipless if my riding needs alter. I just feel that pedal 'threads' tend to lack a level of honesty when weighing up the pros and cons and analysing someones needs. There is a strong undercurrent of mockery towards non clipless users with a dollop of inadequacy if they didn't like clipless or are loathe to try them.

Yes the threads on Cyclechat tend to be more balanced but would they be if people like me didn't chime in? Or would they be the free marketing fest for the sellers of pedal systems and shoes that you see elsewhere on the net?

 

[youngoldbloke]

"pedal attachment has been around for 100+ years so it's not fad or fashion - no-one ever said it was, what was actually said was that it can be fad/fashion for riders that will never be able to extract the full level of benefit they offer"
Where was that? I think a number of flat pedaller posters have put forward the fashion-victim view of clipless users. Personally I need all the help I can get - even if I can't "extract the full level of benefit they offer"

 

[MacB]

"pedal attachment has been around for 100+ years so it's not fad or fashion - no-one ever said it was, what was actually said was that it can be fad/fashion for riders that will never be able to extract the full level of benefit they offer"
Where was that? I think a number of flat pedaller posters have put forward the fashion-victim view of clipless users. Personally I need all the help I can get - even if I can't "extract the full level of benefit they offer"

I'm not digging back through but I accept that it may have been implied rather than baldly stated. Plus, whatever works for you is good and I'm happy for you. A question though, would you accept that the 'power', and other, benefits will vary depending on rider and style?

You see this is the crux of my argument, if you're not, or have no future plans to, extracting the full benefits then the 'clipless are better' point starts to lose traction. Don't get me wrong there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone using clipless even if they get no tangible benefit. They may well just prefer the sensation and the pedalling technique it allows...nowt wrong with that. In the same way there's nothing wrong with someone using clipless just because it makes them feel more like a cyclist.

We all apply some level of weighting to our decision making process around our choices. Few of us like to admit to the amount of weight marketing and image can add to that process. That the marketing blurb is freely reinforced by others doesn't make it any less marketing blurb. Hence why I'm so disparaging about 'night and day' difference type claims as they say nothing and take no other factors into account, or dismiss them as irrelevant.

 

[VamP]

Yet reading more closely indicates that they weren't plain flats but flats with clips, so your feet were still attached. So that rings alarm bells, though I accept that it could simply be a case of not having all the info. I can see 1mph(or more) clipless v flats, depending on riding style and pedalling technique, but struggle to see 1mph clipless v toeclips.

This is clearly a big subject for you

Do you really struggle to see a difference between rigid soled cycling shoe firmly attached to a pedal and a soft soled trainer vaguely held in place with a bit of nylon? Really?


Oh and my pedant alert tells me that I cannot possibly be 'born-again' with regard to some 'fashion' I had not tried before


You make some good points, and I respect your (and numerous other cyclists - my soon to be wife's included) preferences with regards to flats. Personally I am hardly a clipless evangelist, but I prefer clipless. To the extent of changing the pedals for longer rides. After all, it only takes a couple of minutes.


Is that still garbage?

 

[MacB]

This is clearly a big subject for you

Is that still garbage?

nope it's an alltogether more fragrant affair now....it's really not the big subject it seems for me, more of a hobby like some get interested in climate change scientists

 

[abo]

I always carry my gym kit and shoes separately anyway. Change when I get there. Different shoes for different activities. You don't go to play football wearing your boots do you? Wear your climbing shoes on the journey to the hills?

I *have* driven to my spinning class a couple of times in my SPD shoes