Why attack cyclists?

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petek

Über Member
Location
East Coast UK
When I was in Primary School they used to have a Cycling Proficiency test.
Age 9 or 10 we'd be, so early 1960s.
Everyone with a bike had to do it and you got a badge and a certificate if you passed.
There was a multi-choice theory test, mainly identifying road signs then you went out and did the practical tests on estate roads. Marshalls with clip boards scored you as you rode round.
Nobody without their Cycling Proficiency badge could come to school on their bike.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
What training do cyclists need? Everyone knows which side of the road to use, what a red light means and where you should give way or stop.
Oh but you've failed to notice that cycling is much more complicated now. There used to be only 6 rules specifically for cyclists in the Highway Code when I started and now there's 24, whereas the whole code is now over 300 rules when it used to be about 150. Therefore, I conclude that cycling is becoming more complicated twice as quickly as the highway in general(!) and therefore training must soon become compulsory(!) :crazy:
 

boydj

Legendary Member
Location
Paisley
What training do cyclists need? --------------------------------------------------------
A bicycle is a piece of P to master, after the first five minutes of wobbling about we're up and away. People have been killed because they have taken a chance on running a red light or riding on the wrong side of the road, no one dies because they don't know what red means or that you should ride on the left.

I hope there's some tongue in cheek going on here. There's a lot in the Bikeability training, particularly about road positioning, that's not intuitive for inexperienced cyclists riding on busy roads.
 

Smokin Joe

Legendary Member
I hope there's some tongue in cheek going on here. There's a lot in the Bikeability training, particularly about road positioning, that's not intuitive for inexperienced cyclists riding on busy roads.
There is nothing tongue in cheek about it at all. Riding a bike is easy, road positioning comes naturally to most people.
 

Randomnerd

Bimbleur
Location
North Yorkshire
My point is this. When we rant, especially in public, about 'lesser' cyclists, who may jump red lights, or cycle in the wrong lane, or whatever it is, all we are doing is increasing the noise in the anti cycle babble
I don't agree with you. Jumping reds and riding on the path are what brings cyclists into disrepute with hoi polloi. Cyclists should be vocal in condemning law-breaking cyclists, just as fair-minded passers-by might challenge some scrote with his hand in granny's shopping bag.
This laissez faire world you advocate leads us to people not getting involved in society, walking past, looking the other way.
 

Slick

Guru
Comparing timid cyclists riding on a path to some score robbing a pensioner is quite frankly ludicrous.
 
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bozmandb9

Insert witty title here
I don't agree with you. Jumping reds and riding on the path are what brings cyclists into disrepute with hoi polloi. Cyclists should be vocal in condemning law-breaking cyclists, just as fair-minded passers-by might challenge some scrote with his hand in granny's shopping bag.
This laissez faire world you advocate leads us to people not getting involved in society, walking past, looking the other way.

Not really the same though is it. I don't see jumping a red light as equivalent to robbing a granny, do you? Should we criticise every person who walks illogically or potentially hazardously on the pavement? Should we rant about every pedestrian we see with their head immersed in their iphone, oblivious to their surroundings? Should we condemn our fellow pedestrians as stupid, and feel a collective shame, and in doing so discourage perambulation as a means of transport?

Or accept that people aren't always sensible, or logical and we're not qualified, or responsible to judge or criticise others.

It's not about laissez faire, it's about doing something constructive, rather than contributing to the anti cyclist vitriol.

The ranting does nothing for anybody, it could be argued that venting is a positive, but it could equally be argued that focussing on negatives, and condemning others, could be bad for our blood pressure.

In a way, in cycling communities, I see elements of the 'cult' phenomena, which you see in for example veganism. It's a polar point of view, which allows either that you are a 'proper' cyclist, vegan, or __________, or you're a nobber, who doesn't do it properly. It fails to see that for example kids who may have a lot to learn, may be valid cyclists, despite their failings, or that newbies, who may exhibit illogical, even potentially dangerous behaviours, may over time, become better cyclists who may qualify for approval as 'proper'.

It's a point of view which doesn't allow for middle ground, such as eating less meat should be positive to vegans, but will often invite condemnation as a pathetic half measure, and cyclists who don't meet the standards of the self appointed judges, 'shouldn't be on the road'. It is a very arrogant, and I think rather sad point of view, since I would rather see people welcomed to the roads, even if they have a lot to learn (which to be fair, most people do when they start).
 

Randomnerd

Bimbleur
Location
North Yorkshire
Comparing timid cyclists riding on a path to some score robbing a pensioner is quite frankly ludicrous.
if you read the post carefully you'll see I didn't compare the two in that way: you're constructing an argument I wasn't making. The OP is against cyclists ranting about poor cycling. So am I. I'm for people telling other people when they're breaking the law, and for stepping in as a citizen to challenge bag-dippers, light-jumpers, queue-hoppers. We're meeting soon to decide on what kind of masks we'll all wear on night patrol.
 

Randomnerd

Bimbleur
Location
North Yorkshire
I don't see jumping a red light as equivalent to robbing a granny, do you
I didn't make that argument: I'm pointing out the response to each differs in your world view.

t's about doing something constructive, rather than contributing to the anti cyclist vitriol.
What do you suggest we do? You seem to be saying lay off the law-breakers; they're only learning / they're harmless. And that we should do nothing but smile and shrug.
 

Slick

Guru
I don't agree with you. Jumping reds and riding on the path are what brings cyclists into disrepute with hoi polloi. Cyclists should be vocal in condemning law-breaking cyclists, just as fair-minded passers-by might challenge some scrote with his hand in granny's shopping bag.
This laissez faire world you advocate leads us to people not getting involved in society, walking past, looking the other way.

if you read the post carefully you'll see I didn't compare the two in that way: you're constructing an argument I wasn't making. The OP is against cyclists ranting about poor cycling. So am I. I'm for people telling other people when they're breaking the law, and for stepping in as a citizen to challenge bag-dippers, light-jumpers, queue-hoppers. We're meeting soon to decide on what kind of masks we'll all wear on night patrol.[/QUOT

Oh right.
 
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Shut Up Legs

Down Under Member
I didn't make that argument: I'm pointing out the response to each differs in your world view.

What do you suggest we do? You seem to be saying lay off the law-breakers; they're only learning / they're harmless. And that we should do nothing but smile and shrug.
Compared to motorists driving large, heavy vehicles, they're harmless. I generally reserve my criticism for motorists not driving safely.
 
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