Why do we accept tubeless, but not waxed chains?

[wafter]

When people mention in industry chains are oiled always never waxed the OCD waxers will say it’s grinding paste. Conspiracy Dave changes the waxed chain weekly. Who could be arsed.

Chains used in industry are probably a completely different model:

Some potentially run in cases / controlled environments with oil baths so contamination isn't an issue.

The necessary down-time per event to remove and refit a chain may cost more than the pasts cost of an oiled chain's shortened lifespan.

Given that a lot of industrial machinery runs constantly for maximum financial efficiency, waxed chains may be non-viable due to the frequency with which they'd need re-treating.

There may be logistical issues in immersive-waxing large chains.

 

[scotsbikester]

When people mention in industry chains are oiled always never waxed the OCD waxers will say it’s grinding paste. Conspiracy Dave changes the waxed chain weekly. Who could be arsed.

I've worked on machines in "industry" that were driven by chains. The operating environment and maintenance regime was completely different.

Tell us about the chains operating the machinery in the "industry" you worked in.

Thinking about it, my last petrol car had a timing chain, not a belt. It was behind a steel cover, and bathed constantly in oil that was pumped under pressure through a filter.

Tell us, why did you stop waxing your chain and start using oil to lubricate it?

 

[Ian H]

Oil lasted through 600km of this kind of weather.

For longer events I carry a mini bottle to relube, but mostly don't need it.

 

[Milzy]

I've worked on machines in "industry" that were driven by chains. The operating environment and maintenance regime was completely different.

Tell us about the chains operating the machinery in the "industry" you worked in.

Thinking about it, my last petrol car had a timing chain, not a belt. It was behind a steel cover, and bathed constantly in oil that was pumped under pressure through a filter.

Tell us, why did you stop waxing your chain and start using oil to lubricate it?

Because Reginald Scott said he felt slower on waxed chains. And Dave is spending a fortune on his special wax blend cycling to work. It’s cheaper in my EV to work than what it would be riding in the rain with his weekly regime.

 

[Jameshow]

Can I just say:

Anyone still using rim brakes is an idiot and a luddite.

@Moderators

That's a bit rude and derogatory esp to those who cannot afford disc brakes.

 

[Binky]

@Moderators

That's a bit rude and derogatory esp to those who cannot afford disc brakes.

Just taking a stab in the dark but I'd say that was tongue in cheek, a joke etc. As for cost, are disc braked bikes more expensive?

 

[yello]

Just taking a stab in the dark but I'd say that was tongue in cheek, a joke etc. As for cost, are disc braked bikes more expensive?

I thought @Jameshow might have been tongue-in-cheek, making a joke too tbh. I wasn't sure but I know we all have different senses of humour. Mine's very dry and the number of times it fails to land just, sometimes, makes me want to give up!

 

[Binky]

I thought @Jameshow might have been tongue-in-cheek, making a joke too tbh. I wasn't sure but I know we all have different senses of humour. Mine's very dry and the number of times it fails to land just, sometimes, makes me want to give up!

Hmm I'd say not seeing as alerting mods but who knows.

 

[yello]

but who knows.

Yep, that's the world to live in imho/ime. Benefit of the doubt etc.

 

[wafter]

Because Reginald Scott said he felt slower on waxed chains. And Dave is spending a fortune on his special wax blend cycling to work. It’s cheaper in my EV to work than what it would be riding in the rain with his weekly regime.

More hyperbole conveniently selected to fit a loaded narrative. My waxing consumables cost about £20 and of that I've probably used less than half by value (half the wax, a fraction of the moly powder which forms the bulk of the cost and isn't a necessity). So let's say £10's worth of consumables over 20k mile's worth of waxing is 0.05p/mile.

Assume a mean oiled chain life of 3k miles and a conservative 4k on wax, at £15/chain you're spending 0.5p/mile with oil and 0.375p with wax so the cost of waxing consumables is repaid by a factor of 2.5 in extended chain life. That's before you factor in the greater service life of other drivetrain components and cost of the oil.

The problem you conveniently cite is one of over-priced, over-marked industry-specific products; which is a cycling-wide issue and not a legitimate criticism of waxing in isolation.

 

[Happy_Days]

Just taking a stab in the dark but I'd say that was tongue in cheek, a joke etc.

I thought @Jameshow might have been tongue-in-cheek, making a joke too tbh.

I also read it as tongue in cheek.

 

[scotsbikester]

For me, these two things are not unrelated.

For my sort of cycling the low pressure advantage of tubeless doesn't really apply. But the puncture proofness might.

But I carry a spare inner tube, patch kit, proper frame pump, three steel cored tyre levers. I'm set up for on the road punctures, even though I don't get them. But what I hated most about anything involving the rear wheel, such as tyre removal, was the filth of the chain and cassette.

But now I've started waxing. The thing is very very clean. So the fear of the filth involved in a rear puncture has gone. So the main reason why tubeless might be of any interest to me, isn't.

Also the rims aren't tubeless compatible, but I'm on disc brakes so won't wear them out.

But mainly CyclingBadger's photograph. Which is hilarious, but probably not if you were there. I don't want my bike to look like that, ever.

 

[scotsbikester]

Because Reginald Scott said he felt slower on waxed chains. And Dave is spending a fortune on his special wax blend cycling to work. It’s cheaper in my EV to work than what it would be riding in the rain with his weekly regime.

I don't know who the hell Reginald Scott is, and couldn't care less how he "felt". I "feel" faster on a waxed chain. There, another highly scientific study for you.

When people mention in industry chains are oiled always never waxed the OCD waxers will say it’s grinding paste. Conspiracy Dave changes the waxed chain weekly. Who could be arsed.

Who is "Conspiracy Dave"? Or the "OCD waxers"? Are they in the room with you now?

 

[a.twiddler]

The whole waxed chains/ tubeless tyre thing has passed me by. Really, how many cyclists not on forums use these things? I haven't had to replace a worn out chain for years, though I have removed one once or twice when it got unbearably gritty in my pre recumbent days. Every time I look at my Brompton I think I'll be replacing that chain soon but after a good spray of oil (GT85!) and a wipe down with a cloth it lives to fight another day. It does spend its life dangling perilously close to the road surface, though, and there's not much of it. As for the recumbents, their chains spend most of their lives away from the road surface and are also immensely long, so don't seem to wear much whatever you might fancy applying to them.

Tubeless? Well the set up works for the motor industry, so why is it such a faff for bicycles? So messy, too. It obviously works for some people. When someone comes up with a foolproof (and inexpensive) system I'll be delighted to to try it, but tubes have served me well over the years, and with current puncture resistant tyres being so much better than the things we had years ago, it won't be just yet.

 

[scotsbikester]

More hyperbole conveniently selected to fit a loaded narrative. My waxing consumables cost about £20 and of that I've probably used less than half by value (half the wax, a fraction of the moly powder which forms the bulk of the cost and isn't a necessity). So let's say £10's worth of consumables over 20k mile's worth of waxing is 0.05p/mile.

Assume a mean oiled chain life of 3k miles and a conservative 4k on wax, at £15/chain you're spending 0.5p/mile with oil and 0.375p with wax so the cost of waxing consumables is repaid by a factor of 2.5 in extended chain life. That's before you factor in the greater service life of other drivetrain components and cost of the oil.

The problem you conveniently cite is one of over-priced, over-marked industry-specific products; which is a cycling-wide issue and not a legitimate criticism of waxing in isolation.

Milzy clearly has a "problem" with chain waxing. And inside the echo chamber of his mind has constructed an imaginary set of people with whom he feels compelled to do battle, denigrate, and mock - the "OCD waxers", "Conspiracy Dave".

Yes, my waxing is pretty cheap too. The slow cooker was an eBay special, and I went for MSW rather than Silca or DIY. Frankly, the money is irrelevant. It's the cleanliness which is the big benefit for me. I cycled to the shops today, in normal trousers and light coloured shoes. As I set off I deliberately rubbed my trouser leg agains the chainring, to show my wife the benefit (she didn't like the WS and Meths smells).