Again, un-helpful.
Again - anyone have any information on how far North in Norway the roads may be passable by bike in winter?
Thank you to all those with useful replies so far.
Winter Tour to Northern Norway (Alta)
- Thread starter whodabear
- Start date
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Again, un-helpful.
Again - anyone have any information on how far North in Norway the roads may be passable by bike in winter?
Thank you to all those with useful replies so far.
I have never been there in winter (only in summer), but I have been in the north east of the US and Canada in winter, which is why I warned you. You go outside, and you have 15 minutes before your eyes start to freeze, that sort of thing. I did ride my bike in the snow in the US, and it was fun at minus 5 or 10, and near home. It was also hard work.
As for your tent, of course the Laser is not good enough. It cannot cope with more than a little bit of snow, and it is too small for bulky winter gear. You will need a larger geodesic tent from Hilleberg or Helsport.
Willem
As for your tent, of course the Laser is not good enough. It cannot cope with more than a little bit of snow, and it is too small for bulky winter gear. You will need a larger geodesic tent from Hilleberg or Helsport.
Willem
Willelm:
Thank you - useful recommendations on the tent. I was banking on storing the vast majority of the gear outside the tent in the various panniers and dry-bags, but I agree that the geodesics are much more resilient in wind and snow than single hoop-designs such as the Laser.
I do understand that the cold is a fierce and dangerous beast.
However.
I'm going to Alta to complete a course which includes two nights out snow-holing as well as ice-water immersion and self-rescue drills in Alta, in Feb. I know that it is possible to spend time measured in days rather than minutes outside in these conditions, but I realise that I don't yet have the kit - or the knowledge for this trip. I am however, working on it.
The road conditions do sound un-bikable in the North of Norway - this advice gratefully accepted, and assuming that my other Norweigan source agrees on this, which I'm sure he will, the Northern parts of this journey are well and truly "off".
Still wondering how far North I can get the bike, with a view to finishing the journey by other means.
Still all-ears for further information on the road conditions.
Thanks.
Whodabear.
I have lived in Norway in the first 27 years of my life. I was living in the Troms to Alta area during one winter. That means, the final 200 miles of that route. I have cycled through Alta on my way south during a tour. I know this road and area very well. I also have friends living in this area, including truck drivers who drive through Alta 4-5 times a week, 52 weeks a year. That also includes the winter months.
The reason why you are committing suicide or even worse; maiming, hurting or killing someone else, is not the effective minus 40 to 50 degrees you will encounter. It is not even the weather. Neither is it the climate and neither is it the snow. The snow is actually your only friend up there.
The one thing that will kill you and/or maybe someone else is the roads. Let me take an example: Go down to a railway. Stand in the middle of a railway when a train is approaching. Did the train swerve to avoid you ? No, it ran straight over you. Why ? Because it runs on the same type of grooves (socalled rail tracks) as you will find on all the roads in Norway and Scandinavia during the winter. These roads are reduced to grooves which it is very difficult to escape from. Both for you and both for cars and trucks. Due to high snowbanks, you cannot escape onto the road shoulder. Who do you think will be hurt most when a car or a truck hits you ? Go down to a motorway and find out.
I don't mind you going up there. I think your idea is what Charles Darwin called Natural Selection. But I do mind if, or rather when, a car/truck swerves to avoid you and then kill someone coming from in the opposite lane because he/she has lost control over the car/truck. For that reason, I am warning you against this adventure. For what you are planning is irresponsible to the extreme.
But deep inside, I also do not want you to die because of this very foolish idea.
....... And that is what I guess the police will too. I think they will soon serve a persona non grata order on you which will last you for ten years, put you on a front page of a newspaper with the caption "another braindead idiot from abroad" (and Daily Mail will do that here too), serve you with a very hefty fine, relieve you from your bike & your gear and then return you back to the living room you should never have left in the first place. This as an act of mercy towards both you and the lives your expedition has put in grave danger.
I have lived in Norway in the first 27 years of my life. I was living in the Troms to Alta area during one winter. That means, the final 200 miles of that route. I have cycled through Alta on my way south during a tour. I know this road and area very well. I also have friends living in this area, including truck drivers who drive through Alta 4-5 times a week, 52 weeks a year. That also includes the winter months.
The reason why you are committing suicide or even worse; maiming, hurting or killing someone else, is not the effective minus 40 to 50 degrees you will encounter. It is not even the weather. Neither is it the climate and neither is it the snow. The snow is actually your only friend up there.
The one thing that will kill you and/or maybe someone else is the roads. Let me take an example: Go down to a railway. Stand in the middle of a railway when a train is approaching. Did the train swerve to avoid you ? No, it ran straight over you. Why ? Because it runs on the same type of grooves (socalled rail tracks) as you will find on all the roads in Norway and Scandinavia during the winter. These roads are reduced to grooves which it is very difficult to escape from. Both for you and both for cars and trucks. Due to high snowbanks, you cannot escape onto the road shoulder. Who do you think will be hurt most when a car or a truck hits you ? Go down to a motorway and find out.
I don't mind you going up there. I think your idea is what Charles Darwin called Natural Selection. But I do mind if, or rather when, a car/truck swerves to avoid you and then kill someone coming from in the opposite lane because he/she has lost control over the car/truck. For that reason, I am warning you against this adventure. For what you are planning is irresponsible to the extreme.
But deep inside, I also do not want you to die because of this very foolish idea.
....... And that is what I guess the police will too. I think they will soon serve a persona non grata order on you which will last you for ten years, put you on a front page of a newspaper with the caption "another braindead idiot from abroad" (and Daily Mail will do that here too), serve you with a very hefty fine, relieve you from your bike & your gear and then return you back to the living room you should never have left in the first place. This as an act of mercy towards both you and the lives your expedition has put in grave danger.
But one of the funniest threads I have read on CC in a long time.
Rohloff_Brompton_Rider
Formerly just_fixed
how far north did the german fella go? the one in the link a few posters ago. he seemed to manage ok.
Estonia is what the people in Alta call "the tropics". Although the Baltics is harsh (x amount Russian/German troops perished there during WW2 due to the cold), it is nothing like the Northern part of Norway. I should know.
This whole thread reminds me about a story a train driver on the Trondheim to Oslo railway told me one year ago. For some reason, there is a lot of pretty big bisons (called moskus, which translates to musk) living in that area. This is 400 kilos big animals with horns, a very short temper, a lot of hormones and not an awful lot of common sense. Some of the young males looses whatever common sense they have during a period during the winter and challenge anything that comes their way.
So the train my friend was driving turned a corner in a pretty good speed one early morning on the top of a mountain pass and was confronted by one of these stupid hormones driven four legged fur-balls some hundred meters ahead. The train immediate put all the brakes on. The moskus dug his feet down and took a threatening posture. The train tried to stop, but was still rapidly approaching the moskus. Which off course the moskus took as a grave insult. So the moskus charged straight at the train at full speed, who was now desperate braking to avoid this confrontation. It goes without saying who the winner of this show-off was.
That story was a sidetrack from the topics in this thread.
Rohloff_Brompton_Rider
Formerly just_fixed
i was only asking. how about the iditabike? is that further south? i'm only asking because i'm too busy to do any serious research and you seem knowledgeable.
Crankarm
Guru
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Well if he doesn't heed your advice toroddf, you being a native, then he is indeed bonkers.
Some one has to save him from himself even if he can't .............. But the problem is not him coming to a cold miserable end, it is as you say the consequences his plan has for others ................
It's surely got to be a wind up, surely?
Why doesn't he contact Ray Mears who might offer some advice on his intended trip?
As Danny says this is the funniest thread on CC at the moment.
It's made my BH weekend
.I guess it is just south of Alta, although in Alaska.
That's a race one totally different type of roads than the ones in Norway again. The things that will kill in Norway is the roads, in effect the trucks and the cars. Not the cold, not the snow and not the darkness.
On the other hand or rather on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean....... That Iditabike ride seems like good fun and the ideal Arctic adventure.
Ticktockmy
Guru
- Location
- Crawley, West Sussex
I have to say, I always admire an adventurer, to some your plan would seem, foolhardy or even bloody stupid. I think you need as you have said, to really do an in depth risk assessment, from all the info given by people here and do in depth research.
You would be surprised by the amount of people who you see cycling through Norway during the winter months ( Locals I would point out).. You need to choose your routes well, as some roads are snow ploughed to the tarmac surface, some; well the greater percent are only ploughed to provide a useable surface. As has been pointed out to you the HGV traffic will cut deep groves, which help the truckers to keep their trucks on the road. For sure if the police think it is unwise for you to use a road they will stop you.
You biggest problem is going to be the cold, and believe me cold kills very slowly and silently.
The locals who cycle wear a vast arrangement of different wear, but basically they work to the layer system, base layer, intermediate layers, and wind proof outer layer, that include the head which can lose 70% of body heat, because we have major arteries and veins passing through the neck. Most of us UK cyclist already practice in winter riding and understand the layer principles, for Norway you just need to have bigger and better layers..
During the winter Norway does not get that cold, a maximum high on average being minus 5-6 deg C and a minimum on average -16, a temperature the human body can handle quite well.
What is the problem is the wind-chill factor, as an example: if you cycle at Minus 5 deg C at 20 Km/ph you will experience a wind chill factor of Minus 20 deg C. At Minus 16 deg C at 20 Km/Ph you will experience a wind chill factor of Minus 30 Deg C at that wind chill factor your flesh will freeze in one minute. Very easy to not notice the onset of frostnip and frostbite.
Likewise, your bike will be subject to the same factors, rubber cracks like human flesh, grease likewise has to be chosen to allow for the cold, alloy parts become brittle
Cycling by yourself would in my opinion be extremely foolhardy, so easy to get sideswiped by a truck or car, and no one would be any the wiser.
I can only say good luck in your adventure, just remember a lot of cyclist have come up in the past with what the majority consider to be foolhardy, but have gone ahead with it and proven them wrong.
You would be surprised by the amount of people who you see cycling through Norway during the winter months ( Locals I would point out).. You need to choose your routes well, as some roads are snow ploughed to the tarmac surface, some; well the greater percent are only ploughed to provide a useable surface. As has been pointed out to you the HGV traffic will cut deep groves, which help the truckers to keep their trucks on the road. For sure if the police think it is unwise for you to use a road they will stop you.
You biggest problem is going to be the cold, and believe me cold kills very slowly and silently.
The locals who cycle wear a vast arrangement of different wear, but basically they work to the layer system, base layer, intermediate layers, and wind proof outer layer, that include the head which can lose 70% of body heat, because we have major arteries and veins passing through the neck. Most of us UK cyclist already practice in winter riding and understand the layer principles, for Norway you just need to have bigger and better layers..
During the winter Norway does not get that cold, a maximum high on average being minus 5-6 deg C and a minimum on average -16, a temperature the human body can handle quite well.
What is the problem is the wind-chill factor, as an example: if you cycle at Minus 5 deg C at 20 Km/ph you will experience a wind chill factor of Minus 20 deg C. At Minus 16 deg C at 20 Km/Ph you will experience a wind chill factor of Minus 30 Deg C at that wind chill factor your flesh will freeze in one minute. Very easy to not notice the onset of frostnip and frostbite.
Likewise, your bike will be subject to the same factors, rubber cracks like human flesh, grease likewise has to be chosen to allow for the cold, alloy parts become brittle
Cycling by yourself would in my opinion be extremely foolhardy, so easy to get sideswiped by a truck or car, and no one would be any the wiser.
I can only say good luck in your adventure, just remember a lot of cyclist have come up in the past with what the majority consider to be foolhardy, but have gone ahead with it and proven them wrong.
And you off course have a lot of examples of Norwegians cycling on these roads at mid winter ? Have you ever seen those roads, btw ? I have yet to see or even hear about Norwegians cycling that road at mid-winter. Never. But I have seen those roads many times over at mid-winter.
I am cruel to be nice or even a life saver. And I am by no means joking in my many posts.
Anyway; this thread is purely academic. This adventurer who started this thread will not be able to even leave the airport before being arrested and then probably deported for his own good and due to the safety of the other road users.
I am cruel to be nice or even a life saver. And I am by no means joking in my many posts.
Anyway; this thread is purely academic. This adventurer who started this thread will not be able to even leave the airport before being arrested and then probably deported for his own good and due to the safety of the other road users.
Ticktockmy
Guru
- Location
- Crawley, West Sussex
I can answer yes to all your questions, and indeed know and understand more about Norway than you would possible guess. LOL.
But the subject of this thread is not about who or what I know other than the subject matter relative to the guys query. I was trying to offer some sensible information to the guy in a friendly and non-emotive manner. If you had read my remarks you will or should have understand I really had not said anything much different than yourself just in a different form of words, and in a more calm and friendly manner.
And as you said, whatever the guy plans, you know and I know that the appropriate authority will take him to one side and gently whisper in his shell like ear, and suggest that he might like to reconsider his plans, which of course he can as he intentions are to ride the route so that he can attend a expedition medicine course starting in mid February 2011.
You portray the police as being rather aggressive, ready to deport people because they think of doing something foolhardy, I guess there first words will be “You want to do What” and then roll about with laughter. As I said they will just give good advice and suggest he uses another form of transport.
Sorry whodabaer that this thread has gone a tad off course.
Sorry, I don't like people getting killed in the middle of their best years of their lives. Hence, that makes me and my writing emotional. I am certain that this expedition idea is a very dangerous undertaking indeed. Both for him and in particular; other road users.
The police would not suggest. They would forcefully stop this expedition and fine the offender like they have done many times before. I have personal experience.
Anyway, I should move onto more productive matters. Nuclear fission for example.
