YouTube Dilema

[JoysOfSight]

I wonder if I'm alone in finding that when I don't have a camera on, I seem to experience a lot more incidents than otherwise?

I don't for one minute believe this is down to people seeing the camera, so it seems the two possibilities are either that when I ride without a camera I somehow "provoke" incidents, which is unlikely as many are things like mobile-related or pulling out in front, or that when I have the camera on I don't assign such significance to what others are doing (perhaps subconciously knowing that if push came to shove, they were doing it on camera).

I don't really know which explanation I prefer (and would welcome any other suggestions).

As for the wider question of whether cameras do any good, in fact I think the greatest good comes to my own riding, because I am so much more relaxed and feel less need to argue with people. I still do argue with them, sometimes, but less than when I rode "naked" and of course there is an objective viewpoint to it all. (Interestingly I can often tell when a video clip is from by how adversarial I am - the more outraged, it's often an early one when I hadn't got used to the idea that I was recording yet).

I'm not sure it has much of an impact on driving per se, but as people have commented above, individual drivers who get burned will not forget in a hurry. In this I specifically disagree with the post above.

Rome wasn't built in a day!

 

[HLaB]

I wonder if I'm alone in finding that when I don't have a camera on, I seem to experience a lot more incidents than otherwise?

You are not alone, when I've got a camera fitted I have hardly any incidents. I know the ATC is a pretty big beast and would be hard to miss but SMIDSY would.

 

[martint235]

I agree entirely. My commutes with the camera are a lot less stressful and with fewer incidents than my commutes without. I have no idea why as it's only a small muvi camera so virtually invisible against my bulk!

 

[gaz]

It was then a passing comment by Gaz about 'looking for incidents' that started the last 12 or so pages of this thread.

Haha don't try and pin this on my comment! whilst i may have said that, i haven't contributed since.

If you want to ride with a helmet cam then that's fine, but please don't feel it is your mission to hunt down every single bad bad overtake there is because you will do more harm then good.

I doubt anyone here 'hunts' down, or talks to every driver that performs a poor overtake. If i get the oppertunity then i might have a word if the overtake was of particularly poor standard. I get many bad overtakes on most journeys that i don't even bother posting.

 

[jonny jeez]

What will piss people off and futher alienate drivers from cyclists are the attitudes of some helmet cam cyclists who think it is their God given right to make such a big deal out of the incidents that for the most part are minimal and occur every day.

If you have a bad pass there really is no need to start a thread on it and try and induce some sort of moral dileema such as the cabbie was illegally parked.

If you want to ride with a helmet cam then that's fine, but please don't feel it is your mission to hunt down every single bad bad overtake there is because you will do more harm then good.

I cant disagree with any of that, I do often think we "cam-dwellers" feel that, because we have the footage, we have to post it. And I am often convinced that the debate that some of this footage sparks off is not healthy, especially for us...I can think of only ONE you tube thread that resulted in a sensible admission form the driver and even that was only due to the fact that someone on here (I think it was either Fossy or Ianruk) suggesting we go easy on the driver as they had dislpayed a clear willingness to listen

But having a cam does provide you with evidence when needed to show the relevant authorities.

I wonder if I'm alone in finding that when I don't have a camera on, I seem to experience a lot more incidents than otherwise?

I don't for one minute believe this is down to people seeing the camera, so it seems the two possibilities are either that when I ride without a camera I somehow "provoke" incidents, which is unlikely as many are things like mobile-related or pulling out in front, or that when I have the camera on I don't assign such significance to what others are doing (perhaps subconciously knowing that if push came to shove, they were doing it on camera).

I don't really know which explanation I prefer (and would welcome any other suggestions).

As for the wider question of whether cameras do any good, in fact I think the greatest good comes to my own riding, because I am so much more relaxed and feel less need to argue with people. I still do argue with them, sometimes, but less than when I rode "naked" and of course there is an objective viewpoint to it all. (Interestingly I can often tell when a video clip is from by how adversarial I am - the more outraged, it's often an early one when I hadn't got used to the idea that I was recording yet).

I'm not sure it has much of an impact on driving per se, but as people have commented above, individual drivers who get burned will not forget in a hurry. In this I specifically disagree with the post above.

Rome wasn't built in a day!

you are most definitely not alone there J O S

 

[jonny jeez]

I doubt anyone here 'hunts' down, or talks to every driver that performs a poor overtake. If i get the oppertunity then i might have a word if the overtake was of particularly poor standard. I get many bad overtakes on most journeys that i don't even bother posting.

I think lee probably ovestated the "every single" point, But I understand his point, there are a shocking amount of vids of cyclists berating drivers on 'tinternet. The problem is, cyclist sometimes HAVE to berate drivers, its just that when recorded and posted, thats all the general masses get to see.

 

[bryce]

Not sure if there's a definitive concensus from all the cam wearer replies but it seems to be towards 'cam wearing is essential to take evidence of crimes and bad driving' rather than wearing it to record fun rides or skillful manoeuvres or a fun 'scalping'.

So you're setting out on each ride thinking that you may be a victim of a crime. Fair enough - same logic as wearing a helmet to avoid the injuries caused by a crash.

The only criticism I would then have is using it to record bad driving rather than a crime scene. People make mistakes all the time. I had a dopey Chelsea lady in her Range Rover pull out from a side road yesterday and almost fell me (on Onslow Gardens(, London)). It was a mistake and I cycled on with a menacing glare and flick of the hand. To then go and report her, send the video evidence to the Police (or whoever), just seems way overkill and a waste of everyone's time. Rather than educating said driver, I'd argue that it would in fact breed further antagonistic/ them-and-us behaviour all round.

 

[jonny jeez]

I agree that it does seem unbalanced. But to upload every good overtake would be the most boring job (to upload and to view) in the world.

That made me chuckle,

but its not true MP...you only need to upload a few good examples for every few bad...yin and yang and all that.

 

[jonny jeez]

So you're setting out on each ride thinking that you may be a victim of a crime. Fair enough - same logic as wearing a helmet to avoid the injuries caused by a crash.

Yep, that's about right

The only criticism I would then have is using it to record bad driving rather than a crime scene. People make mistakes all the time. I had a dopey Chelsea lady in her Range Rover pull out from a side road yesterday and almost fell me (on Onslow Gardens(, London)). It was a mistake and I cycled on with a menacing glare and flick of the hand. To then go and report her, send the video evidence to the Police (or whoever), just seems way overkill and a waste of everyone's time. Rather than educating said driver, I'd argue that it would in fact breed further antagonistic/ them-and-us behaviour all round

Agreed

.

I would also add that the more this happens, the less time (and appetite)the police will have to investigate really bad offenders

 

[JoysOfSight]

The only criticism I would then have is using it to record bad driving rather than a crime scene. People make mistakes all the time. I had a dopey Chelsea lady in her Range Rover pull out from a side road yesterday and almost fell me (on Onslow Gardens(, London)). It was a mistake and I cycled on with a menacing glare and flick of the hand. To then go and report her, send the video evidence to the Police (or whoever), just seems way overkill and a waste of everyone's time. Rather than educating said driver, I'd argue that it would in fact breed further antagonistic/ them-and-us behaviour all round.

But what's the difference between "bad driving" and a "crime scene", in terms of the driver's actions? Seems to me it is an artificial distinction - it's like when someone defends driving at 50mph past a primary school because they didn't hit anyone (that time).

However, the point about setting out "expecting to be hit" is well made, and I'm quite conflicted about the whole thing from that point of view. I personally try to advocate "normal" cycling, as in you don't need to wear body armour and a bin-man suit to cycle to the corner shop for milk, and yet I record everything around me. This isn't something I've ever been able to reconcile.

 

[BentMikey]

What will piss people off and futher alienate drivers from cyclists are

...those RLJing cyclists like yourself, perhaps more than anything else at all. You really talk such a load of bawlocks sometimes Lee.

 

[jimboalee]

I would also add that the more this happens, the less time (and appetite)the police will have to investigate really bad offenders

a la ... The little boy who cried wolf.

 

[jimboalee]

a la ... The little boy who cried wolf.

Or is it Chicken Licken "The sky is falling!"

 

[BentMikey]

I seem to recall a study that showed the more time that police spent on minor traffic offences, the more the KSI figures dropped. It seems pretty obvious to me that what is needed is more consequences for the more minor traffic infractions, all the time. If some of those consequences are due to helmet cameras, I'm pretty happy with that.

 

[Jezston]

...those RLJing cyclists like yourself, perhaps more than anything else at all. You really talk such a load of bawlocks sometimes Lee.

The only way to stop people (or trolls) on forums who like antagonising people by being deliberately contrarian, argumentative etc is to stop engaging with them.

When lee comes out with bollocks just ignore him, and he'll soon stop doing it when he realises there's no fun to be had.