Zwift Chat

[bridgy]

Seems weird that my watts and w/kg is higher than yours but I’m still in B and you’re in A. Maybe I misunderstood the criteria? Not that I’m complaining, let’s us know how you get on won’t you! 😄

The new system takes max aerobic power into account as well as FTP - so Michael's big sprint power will be taken into account. His 15 second and 1 minute power are both a fair bit higher than yours. This is what Zwift say about how they are (currently) working it out - note they acknowledge that short max power effots will affect your cat (not currently the case at all):

We take into consideration the estimated VO2max (in ml/min/kg) and MAP (maximal aerobic power, i.e: the VO2max equivalent in absolute power), which can make riders fall into certain categories regardless of their FTP.

For example, imagine someone with a low-ish FTP but with a high VO2max (or MAP power) that could really do very well in certain races that require those sort of short maximal efforts. They would be put into the category above based on those values and not only based off FTP.

For a concrete example with some numbers: anyone with a VO2max equal or above 60 or a MAP value equal or above 360w or 5.4 W/kg will be put into the A category, etc.

 

[mjd1988]

The new system takes max aerobic power into account as well as FTP - so Michael's big sprint power will be taken into account. His 15 second and 1 minute power are both a fair bit higher than yours. This is what Zwift say about how they are (currently) working it out - note they acknowledge that short max power effots will affect your cat (not currently the case at all):

We take into consideration the estimated VO2max (in ml/min/kg) and MAP (maximal aerobic power, i.e: the VO2max equivalent in absolute power), which can make riders fall into certain categories regardless of their FTP.

For example, imagine someone with a low-ish FTP but with a high VO2max (or MAP power) that could really do very well in certain races that require those sort of short maximal efforts. They would be put into the category above based on those values and not only based off FTP.

For a concrete example with some numbers: anyone with a VO2max equal or above 60 or a MAP value equal or above 360w or 5.4 W/kg will be put into the A category, etc.

Interesting. I'm not fully against this as this is how people sandbag (altho I'm definitely not sandbagging in B 😬)

Again I assume it'll even out a bit, if I'm in a race with people with 2 w/kg average higher I'll not be doing much sprinting! So I'll presumably end up somewhere else. Or will it adjust depending on the course? I already struggle on long climbs in B races.

Regardless coming back from injury it'll be fun lol

 

[bridgy]

Interesting. I'm not fully against this as this is how people sandbag (altho I'm definitely not sandbagging in B 😬)

Again I assume it'll even out a bit, if I'm in a race with people with 2 w/kg average higher I'll not be doing much sprinting! So I'll presumably end up somewhere else. Or will it adjust depending on the course? I already struggle on long climbs in B races.

Regardless coming back from injury it'll be fun lol

Don't worry too much yet - it's only some selected "Future works" events that will use the new system as a bit of a trial, everything else remains as it is for the time being

 

[steverob]

the next local club was mercia but the problem was there is the medium group was a 15-16 avg then the next group up was a 20 + avg and if you got dropped they just left you

This is similar to the problems I have with the local clubs around me. The groups that do a pace I am capable of are only interested in doing really short rides (and even then with a coffee stop in the middle), while the groups doing the sorts of longer distances I enjoy, are set up for a pace where I would get dropped within minutes. So I end up just doing rides on my own - at least that way I have control of the route, the distance and the pace!

 

[<Tommy>]

Interesting. I'm not fully against this as this is how people sandbag (altho I'm definitely not sandbagging in B 😬)

Again I assume it'll even out a bit, if I'm in a race with people with 2 w/kg average higher I'll not be doing much sprinting! So I'll presumably end up somewhere else. Or will it adjust depending on the course? I already struggle on long climbs in B races.

Regardless coming back from injury it'll be fun lol

Lee kind of has the same thing in reverse having a high w/kg.

In a hilly race or in a flat race I kind of expect to be at the front (ish). But maybe lee will struggle in the flat race and maybe you will struggle on the hills.

Assuming we all do a variety of races I think the present cat system fails you both. That’s just my opinion…. The category system at the moment is taking your highest number but with no context. So unless you two just want to focus on the race you’re most suited for you will be getting punished. That should be the other way around shouldn’t it? Or maybe it’s just me. But I think what should happen is the system should encourage you to do a variety of race types and then reward you for it.

 

[Whorty]

I’ve noticed how heavily skewed it is towards regularity of racing. But I assume that’s something that’s easily fixed.

A lot of the top C racers have points similar to me and Al, yet we race in B and the scores come back as 400 ish ... so does seem a bit buggered up at the moment. Also, I don't seem to be losing points now I'm racing in B, which seems incorrect.

 

[Whorty]

Just thinking about this some more, and the fact that the points system doesn't actually determine Cat is probably the reason there's what look like a couple of anomalies here - and if it did determine categorisation those anomalies would probably disappear.

Take Carl and Lee for example. Carl's points were probably boosted by riding at the very top of Cat C for a while, and in a points system he may have been bumped up to the next category sooner than he was. And Lee's points were probably affected by the fact he struggles in Cat A, and was moved up to that Cat at a time when he was finishing in Cat B in around the same positions that me and Tommy were. So in his case, he may never have been moved up.

So the fact that this doesn't currently look quite right is more of a proof that the current system based purely on 20 minute power is flawed, rather than the points system itself being flawed

Agreed

 

[alex_cycles]

This is similar to the problems I have with the local clubs around me. The groups that do a pace I am capable of are only interested in doing really short rides (and even then with a coffee stop in the middle), while the groups doing the sorts of longer distances I enjoy, are set up for a pace where I would get dropped within minutes. So I end up just doing rides on my own - at least that way I have control of the route, the distance and the pace!

Dunno what part of Bucks you're in, but if you're not too far away, here in sunny Bicester we usually have 2-4 rides most Sat/Sundays, ranging from Ds with 40 miles at about 14-15mph through As doing about 60 miles at 18+mph.

https://www.bmcc2000.com/

 

[alex_cycles]

I am still C on the new events, so looks accurate to me

And yet over the TdZ you beat me, so it can't really be all that good a judge of performance over "around an hour" races if I'm a B and you're a C, can it?

My stats are probably skewed by a couple of short crits I've done where I love to "smash it" for 20ish minutes.

I wonder if categorisation should be looking at different time points on the power curve e.g. 1 hour. Clearly I'm better over short distances than longer ones. There seems to be an assumption that 20 minute power defines you over the range, which is clearly wrong for those of us that don't fit that model.

 

[<Tommy>]

And yet over the TdZ you beat me, so it can't really be all that good a judge of performance over "around an hour" races if I'm a B and you're a C, can it?

My stats are probably skewed by a couple of short crits I've done where I love to "smash it" for 20ish minutes.

This is what I’m talking about. And why setting cat boundaries by power is deeply flawed.

But will zwift ever really shift?…

 

[steverob]

Dunno what part of Bucks you're in, but if you're not too far away, here in sunny Bicester we usually have 2-4 rides most Sat/Sundays, ranging from Ds with 40 miles at about 14-15mph through As doing about 60 miles at 18+mph.

https://www.bmcc2000.com/

Just a tad too far away in Aylesbury unfortunately. Though I did go out Bicester way for a long ride last Friday and upon my return did notice you were the Local Legend on a number of Strava segments I passed through!

 

[alex_cycles]

Just a tad too far away in Aylesbury unfortunately. Though I did go out Bicester way for a long ride last Friday and upon my return did notice you were the Local Legend on a number of Strava segments I passed through!

I call it "local bell-end". I shall be losing all those shortly as I've hardly ridden outside in the last 2 months

 

[bobinski]

indeed i am looking long term to be back at full strength by summer, biggest issue is currently only doing around an hour sessions as the collar bone is still not strong enough to do long rides even on the turbo so its been threahold sessions so the endurance for longer stints will be down the pan for a while

WTF do i know and all that but looking at your posts suggests you are giving your body a real kicking when it needs it least. Multiple attempts at Alp D Zwift? Why? Its not as if you can trust your power output or times. So, why not ease off a bit and do 1 hr endurance rides every day. The evidence, such as i understand it from all the interwebs and YT stuff , suggests regular low power endurance endurance and a weekly effort/HIT are about all you need to maintain and indeed improve fitness. As your collar bone improves and you can up the intensity you will reap the benefit of those endurance rides. You seem to be risking riding to fatigue at the moment and trust me that is a long journey back if you do.

 

[Joffey]

Update companion app on phone. Open up app, go to events, scroll across to say 22nd and scroll through events until you find a Future Works event for auto cat (can't recall exact name but you'll spot it)

Open event and you'll see that you can only enter certain cats

Great, I'm Cat B.

Zwankers.

 

[berty bassett]

Good afternoon
Took me ages to come to terms with being oooffed out of racing with chums
I know that we are closely matched and no one can guess who’s gonna win so I found it most unfair to be bumped up solely because w/kg are higher even though nothing else is
I’ve rode with most of you and know the score in reality
That is why I don’t take much interest in race results , I can’t beat many As so I just sort of have my own race and just push myself Couldn’t tell you if my number is high ,low or whatever
@norry - now it’s a single app , it loads just as quick as Zwift
Don’t get me wrong , it’s a smaller platform with fewer people but that helps really as you know your enemy
Different sort of racing , biggest difference is the braking round corners
Trying to make it more lifelike you sort of have to feather power to get a good position to get round a corner then power out - up or down
I sort of wish more would try it but maybe one day
Downside is not many official races
Upside there are leagues
Downside a bit hard to find all the stuff going on
Upside if you find it , there is a lot dotted about on rgtdb and facecrack
You can create your own route of any gpx you have ( up to 60km) (very lifelike for gradient and turns )
You can also create your own event on any gpx and invite everybody for a certain time
Everyone starts at silver and say there is 100 points in each class , you either collect points and go up to gold , then platinum or down to bronze - you all race together and if a bronze beats a silver , the bronze will gain many points and the silver will lose them - simple
But it’s nice to know your nemesis , or the bloke you want to try and keep pace with
If people have a go I would recommend the ride to lighthouse route - a bit of everything - but it’s a lot different when racing instead of having a lot of bots
Just to finish - led zeppelin- ramble on
😁classic tune that stays in your head for days
You’re welcome