Zwift Chat

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
OP
OP
CXRAndy

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
i know its easy done - but i am confused again ! - does this mean they have made it easier or harder to race ?

It will allow riders to rest alot more in the pack and help in a chain gang. Also for bigger riders like me can draft in the pack to save energy for the mid distance climbs. It was always a struggle to up my efforts on really fast events going into a climb when already at threshold heart rate. If groups work together they should be able to pull back gaps . Previously I and probably most riders would just sit in because they knew it wasn't of any benefit to work with each other. certainly interested to try out the new draft level. God you tiny riders are going to love drafting my avatar :biggrin:
 

<Tommy>

Illegitimi non carborundum
Location
Camden, London
It will allow riders to rest alot more in the pack and help in a chain gang. Also for bigger riders like me can draft in the pack to save energy for the mid distance climbs. It was always a struggle to up my efforts on really fast events going into a climb when already at threshold heart rate. If groups work together they should be able to pull back gaps . Previously I and probably most riders would just sit in because they knew it wasn't of any benefit to work with each other. certainly interested to try out the new draft level. God you tiny riders are going to love drafting my avatar :biggrin:

I agree with all of this. But I think it’s kind of counter intuitive to suggest it will encourage breakaways. But time will tell I guess! Either way the more realistic it is the better for me.
 

Whorty

Gets free watts from the Atom ;)
Location
Wiltshire
Cliffs:

-Drafting was historically dialled down on Zwift. (Goes to show everyone who thought drafting sucked was right! [see what I did there?...])

-now they’ve increased the drafting effect and given it (3) new catchy names. (I want a job in the Zwift marketing department!)

-after 3 paragraphs of waffle (again, it’s a job I could really do!) they are concluding that a stronger draft effect will encourage break aways? Hmmm.... anyone see why that makes no sense or is it just me?
I came to the same conclusion based on the words on the screen. Confused.com!
 

berty bassett

Legendary Member
Location
I'boro
Well I see my epitaph is coming along great ! Tiny and scrawny is a great opener thank you but lacking content so far - let’s wait till bob wakes up to fill in the blanks:biggrin:
 

LBHIFI

Veteran
Location
Liseleje
I agree with all of this. But I think it’s kind of counter intuitive to suggest it will encourage breakaways. But time will tell I guess! Either way the more realistic it is the better for me.
UCI announced they will create an eSports World Championship. Maybe this is a step towards meting some requirements? The demand for more realism seems inevitable as eSport is getting more serious.
Btw, the danes just announced their first sponsered Zwift team: FUSION ECT.
 

<Tommy>

Illegitimi non carborundum
Location
Camden, London
UCI announced they will create an eSports World Championship. Maybe this is a step towards meting some requirements? The demand for more realism seems inevitable as eSport is getting more serious.
Btw, the danes just announced their first sponsered Zwift team: FUSION ECT.

This is more interesting to me. More races with organised teams, maybe even a series of races, would definitely add to the dynamic.

Getting rid of the power ups might be a good move too.
 

bridgy

Legendary Member
Location
Cheddar
From KISS Zwift Races Headquarters – New Zwift group drafting feature made available to KISS races on ongoing basis.

Zwifters love the cerebral stimulus offered by Zwift racing competition. We keep coming back to push our limits and ride against our comrades forged in fitness. When the person that dropped you on the Epic KOM last week rocks up to the start line at this week’s flat criterium race, you save your energy to roll her/him in the bunch sprint. You’re a sprinter after all, not a climber. A great rivalry is born.

We are excited to take the tried-and-true Zwift racing stimulus to the next level on an ongoing basis for all KISS races. Working closely with Zwift HQ, we will use an alternative Zwift draft (Draft 2.0, TruDraft, Full Draft) effect to bring Zwift racing even closer to the real life experience.

When the dev team originally set up the drafting physics in Zwift, they actually ratcheted down the benefit that you'd get in the real world behind a rider of a given size. The decision was made to scale back drafting for a few reasons:

1) One is that there's no ability to position one's avatar left and right on the road. And there's no braking. So the ability to really fine tune your position is a challenge.

2) The main reason is that most people riding indoors are doing so because they want a quality workout. Picture yourself in the Tour de France. The peloton is moving in excess of 50 kph with most riders sitting in the draft at less than 200 watts. That's great on the road if you have to ride 3,000km. But if you're trying to make the most of an hour on the trainer, it's not ideal.

Racers still want a quality workout from a Zwift race, but not to the detriment of the intense mental stimulus Zwift racing has to offer. Attacks mid-race are hard to justify if rolling in the bunch only offers Zone 3 or Zone 4 for recovery. Ouch. Breakaways, one of the best features of real life racing, are few and far between. Rolling courses, mountainous courses, and flat courses almost always come down to who has the most w/kg in the finishing sprint. This is the Zwift racing we all know and love, but it’s about to get better.

Let’s look at breakaway riding as an example. Strong riders who are working less in the main group will have more reserve energy to attack the group. Attacking power is not equal among all racers and thus the likelihood of an attack sticking is increased. Once established that breakaway group also benefits from Draft 2.0 and therefore will have actual respite. This recovery is converted into more power to drive and extend the breakaway gap. It opens up more options giving riders more energy to work with. Are you the Mark Cavendish in the chasing peloton waiting for the bunch kick? It will only come back if you can convince the Tony Martin in the group to pull on the front to bring back the breakaway move. More variables and opportunities. Not less. We hope this will lead to increased tactics, added teamwork, and fresh strategic opportunities.
I've read all of that several times and I still have no idea what they're actually doing. Instead of all that waffle I wish they'd just explain it in simple plain English
 

<Tommy>

Illegitimi non carborundum
Location
Camden, London
I've read all of that several times and I still have no idea what they're actually doing. Instead of all that waffle I wish they'd just explain it in simple plain English

Well effectively they are saying they’re ratcheting up the draft effect. But I’m guessing you got that much... I think it’s intentionally vague with a massive dollop of marketing waffle, so it’s probably going to be a case of seeing what difference it makes in practice.

What’s interesting is several people here thought that the draft effect was similar to Bkool but it was implemented in a different way. I.e you couldn’t feel the resistance slacking off but it took less effort to maintain the same speed. But now it has been confirmed that the effect was also very diluted, so drafting didn’t reward you as much as it should have done. For me at least I’d prefer that the resistance slackened, more like the Bkool model, as this is closer to real life riding where you actually feel the pull.
 

Whorty

Gets free watts from the Atom ;)
Location
Wiltshire
Well effectively they are saying they’re ratcheting up the draft effect. But I’m guessing you got that much... I think it’s intentionally vague with a massive dollop of marketing waffle, so it’s probably going to be a case of seeing what difference it makes in practice.

What’s interesting is several people here thought that the draft effect was similar to Bkool but it was implemented in a different way. I.e you couldn’t feel the resistance slacking off but it took less effort to maintain the same speed. But now it has been confirmed that the effect was also very diluted, so drafting didn’t reward you as much as it should have done. For me at least I’d prefer that the resistance slackened, more like the Bkool model, as this is closer to real life riding where you actually feel the pull.
My 'feel' of Zwift draft is I (say) have to hit 250 watts to get into a group at say 35 kph, but then to maintain that speed in the group I can drop to say 220 watts. I don't 'feel' the draft like I do in Bkool, but instead have to slacken off power to stay in group and not overshoot.

My biggest gripe though with Zwift drafting is when you get caught in the draft of a rider you have caught up. They call it a 'sticky' draft. For e.g if I'm travelling at 35 kph but catch a rider at 33 kph, unless I up my power to shoot past him Zwift sticks me to his wheel and drops my speed to his. Very annoying when in a group as it means others in the group fly past the caught rider, but you latch on to him and then got dropped by your group.
 
Last edited:

bridgy

Legendary Member
Location
Cheddar
Well effectively they are saying they’re ratcheting up the draft effect. But I’m guessing you got that much... I think it’s intentionally vague with a massive dollop of marketing waffle, so it’s probably going to be a case of seeing what difference it makes in practice.

What’s interesting is several people here thought that the draft effect was similar to Bkool but it was implemented in a different way. I.e you couldn’t feel the resistance slacking off but it took less effort to maintain the same speed. But now it has been confirmed that the effect was also very diluted, so drafting didn’t reward you as much as it should have done. For me at least I’d prefer that the resistance slackened, more like the Bkool model, as this is closer to real life riding where you actually feel the pull.
Yes I agree - the draft effect in bkool was far better and more realistic. I don't really see how just increasing the draft will mean more breakaways to be honest but we'll have to see. The problem currently is if you do try and break away a few people in the pack speed up everyone else benefits from the draft and the whole pack just reel you in - surely the same will happen, just even quicker? We'll see ..

Also, will you really get more rest? You would if just aiming to do the same speed as with the lower draft effect but in reality won't everyone just put in a similar effort as before and all just go faster?
 
Top Bottom