Zwift Chat

[Norry1]

That was crap. Trying really hard ,max heart rate all the way, but speed wasnt there, at no time was I alone. Also with 0.6mile to go, the counter started going the other way right back up to 1 mile, then dropped to 0.5 and counted down again-very odd.

Did you do the 11am event? I did that one and the counter did the weird stuff for me as well, at the same place.

I did 28.04. Went off very fast and was in the top 10/20 for a while and stayed with the lead group (of about 60 in a field of 680ish) until 8 miles in when I slipped off the back. I was then in a group of 5 until about a mile to go when a group behind caught us. Stayed with them blowing out of my backside until the end. Zwift gave me a new higher FTP of 268W based on this - averaged 279W for 20 minutes. My Garmin said 284W but Zwift annoyingly misses out the first 12 or so seconds before the timing starts and that is when I'm pushing 4-500W.

Quite pleased with the power but think the time could have been better if the grouping had worked out a bit different.

 

[Whorty]

Did you do the 11am event? I did that one and the counter did the weird stuff for me as well, at the same place.

I did 28.04. Went off very fast and was in the top 10/20 for a while and stayed with the lead group (of about 60 in a field of 680ish) until 8 miles in when I slipped off the back. I was then in a group of 5 until about a mile to go when a group behind caught us. Stayed with them blowing out of my backside until the end. Zwift gave me a new higher FTP of 268W based on this - averaged 279W for 20 minutes. My Garmin said 284W but Zwift annoyingly misses out the first 12 or so seconds before the timing starts and that is when I'm pushing 4-500W.

Quite pleased with the power but think the time could have been better if the grouping had worked out a bit different.

on a BRVR ride the other day I averaged 271 watts for 36 mins, would be nice if I could get close to that later for 30 mins .... but I struggle to hold the big watts like that consistently on flat courses (I guess this is common). No way I could hold 284 though over 29 mins ... that's crazy!!!

Will be using same tactics though later - blast out, try to hold on (and get dragged along as long as possible), then continue to hang on to whatever groups I end up in until the end

 

[CXRAndy]

I was in the same pack as you Martin. I too was in the top 50 for a long time. I also slipped backwards but there was always a pack to ride with. I just thought the speed was slow for a pan flat course and effort I was putting in. Oh well- Ill see if i can muster another effort to compare

 

[bobinski]

I was in the same pack as you Martin. I too was in the top 50 for a long time. I also slipped backwards but there was always a pack to ride with. I just thought the speed was slow for a pan flat course and effort I was putting in. Oh well- Ill see if i can muster another effort to compare

I may be overthinking this but...
I have been a bit suspicious of the sticky draft, not quite sure it made much difference. But on S5 i often felt stuck beside riders and found i had to push 4w plus to push on past those doing 3.2-3.5. This was especially so as riders slowed and i needed to get past them to stay/push on with the faster group riders. in doing so i would gradually move forward and then as i came closer to the front of the group move much more quickly (which is what i would have expected for the whole of the effort) but then off the front and i would have to ease back. If i eased too much then i fell back through the pack as it swarmed past me and it all began again.
So, for tonights or tomorrows effort i will try and get away quicker and take my own advice and just hang with a faster group overall. Wether they/I will be faster than yesterday is a coin toss!

 

[<Tommy>]

What time are people doing stage 5 tonight? I'm planning on doing it at either 6 or 7......

Join the one at 6 mate.

 

[bridgy]

Join the one at 6 mate.

Will try...

 

[Whorty]

I may be overthinking this but...
I have been a bit suspicious of the sticky draft, not quite sure it made much difference. But on S5 i often felt stuck beside riders and found i had to push 4w plus to push on past those doing 3.2-3.5. This was especially so as riders slowed and i needed to get past them to stay/push on with the faster group riders. in doing so i would gradually move forward and then as i came closer to the front of the group move much more quickly (which is what i would have expected for the whole of the effort) but then off the front and i would have to ease back. If i eased too much then i fell back through the pack as it swarmed past me and it all began again.
So, for tonights or tomorrows effort i will try and get away quicker and take my own advice and just hang with a faster group overall. Wether they/I will be faster than yesterday is a coin toss!

.... this .... I see the same in group riding. The 'sticky' is a really ill conceived idea. For small groups, say 8-10, I feel like I fly and can stay in the group well, and take my turn without fear of overshooting or getting spat out. With large groups though, it's so much more difficult to get the drafting right. Too often you get pushed left, right, out the draft completely, or get stuck to someones wheel who drifts off the back and the group moves away.

And the frustration when you're in a group coming up to a slower rider, who suddenly thinks he can stay with the group and puts on power, then after 10 seconds he realises he's cooked and drops power again, but you're now in his draft. The rest of the group fly through and you're stuck on this numpties wheel, never to see the group again. Fookin p's me off that does (although you can use the same tactic to slow a group down - as they reach you, put on the power and make them stick to you, then you can join their group easier )

The quirks of racing on Zwift I guess, and we all suffer the same way so level playing field

 

[IrishAl]

What time are people doing stage 5 tonight? I'm planning on doing it at either 6 or 7......

I might not get on until Wednesday or Thursday evening. Racing IRLtonight and was racing IRL on Sunday (over 26mph av for 60 miles) and could have made use of the double sticky draft . A 5 man crash at the end which thankfully I avoided however does make Zwift seem much more appealing.

 

[bridgy]

.... this .... I see the same in group riding. The 'sticky' is a really ill conceived idea. For small groups, say 8-10, I feel like I fly and can stay in the group well, and take my turn without fear of overshooting or getting spat out. With large groups though, it's so much more difficult to get the drafting right. Too often you get pushed left, right, out the draft completely, or get stuck to someones wheel who drifts off the back and the group moves away.

And the frustration when you're in a group coming up to a slower rider, who suddenly thinks he can stay with the group and puts on power, then after 10 seconds he realises he's cooked and drops power again, but you're now in his draft. The rest of the group fly through and you're stuck on this numpties wheel, never to see the group again. Fookin p's me off that does (although you can use the same tactic to slow a group down - as they reach you, put on the power and make them stick to you, then you can join their group easier )

The quirks of racing on Zwift I guess, and we all suffer the same way so level playing field

It's because they took the decision not to adjust resistance when you are in the draft (like Bkool does), and instead just increase speed for the same amount of effort. This means you can't "feel" the draft so I think the stickiness is there to help you know you're in the draft and can back off a bit. I agree it can be really frustrating though and I don't like it either.

I much preferred the way the draft affect worked in Bkool which I found much more realistic and satisfying to use

 

[Whorty]

I figured this was the case, but never seen it written down before!

Enter the race early to get gridded near the front
As important as getting a good warm-up is before a race, so too is entering the race early because that way you’ll be gridded near the front of the group, giving you an instant advantage. Better to slide back through the group or set the pace than chasing on from the back of the peloton.

Full article : https://road.cc/content/feature/256249-so-you-want-get-zwift-racing-heres-our-guide-getting-started

 

[<Tommy>]

It's because they took the decision not to adjust resistance when you are in the draft (like Bkool does), and instead just increase speed for the same amount of effort. This means you can't "feel" the draft so I think the stickiness is there to help you know you're in the draft and can back off a bit. I agree it can be really frustrating though and I don't like it either.

I much preferred the way the draft affect worked in Bkool which I found much more realistic and satisfying to use

Did you ever try your neo on Bkool? I used the atom and I found it impossible to draft. I could never get the avatar to sit on someone else’s wheel. Or go steadily in front for that matter. It’s something to do with power smoothing was my best guess.

I have a feeling they incorporated the sticky effect to allow for smooth group riding. So if you’re going a similar pace to someone you will automatically sort of lock in to their orbit.

There must be a specific number or calculation that dictates whether you go straight past someone or sit on their wheel. If you’re not hitting that number you get stuck.

 

[Brusgaard]

I just thought the speed was slow for a pan flat course and effort I was putting in. Oh well- Ill see if i can muster another effort to compare

That was my feeling as well. Compared to the effort (avg. 3.6w/kg), we were not that much faster than my solo/TT-rides the days before at much less effort.

 

[Whorty]

Did you ever try your neo on Bkool? I used the atom and I found it impossible to draft. I could never get the avatar to sit on someone else’s wheel. Or go steadily in front for that matter. It’s something to do with power smoothing was my best guess.

I have a feeling they incorporated the sticky effect to allow for smooth group riding. So if you’re going a similar pace to someone you will automatically sort of lock in to their orbit.

There must be a specific number or calculation that dictates whether you go straight past someone or sit on their wheel. If you’re not hitting that number you get stuck.

I tried the Kickr in Bkool and had the same ... very hard to draft, just kept shooting past the person I was trying to ride with.

re the calc, I read somewhere that it is something like 0.5 w/kg .... if you're within that of the rider you are approaching (and I assume the same kind of speed), then you latch on to them. This is why you need to up your watts when about 10 metres behind the rider to allow you to shoot past. The problem occurs though when that rider increases their watts as you approach, you're now about the same w/kg and so they 'force' you to sticky to them. Must admit, I do this tactic sometimes in races when I've dropped off a group and waiting for the next group to arrive to allow me to join them without them shooting past. It does work quite well (but I bet it p's them off too as it does when others do it to me )

Thing is, no solution will ever be perfect, so we have to learn the quirks and adapt. I'm getting better at drafting now, but when it does go wrong, it goes wrong badly and I say bye bye to the group

 

[mjd1988]

Going to try out the ankle today, seems to be healing much better than i was expecting - probably won't do stage 5 as I don't want to set a ridiculously crap time that skews the league, or get too drawn into the competition of the race and wreck myself.

All being well i'll post some sort of time at the weekend.

 

[bridgy]

Did you ever try your neo on Bkool? I used the atom and I found it impossible to draft. I could never get the avatar to sit on someone else’s wheel. Or go steadily in front for that matter. It’s something to do with power smoothing was my best guess.

I have a feeling they incorporated the sticky effect to allow for smooth group riding. So if you’re going a similar pace to someone you will automatically sort of lock in to their orbit.

There must be a specific number or calculation that dictates whether you go straight past someone or sit on their wheel. If you’re not hitting that number you get stuck.

No I didn't - but funnily enough, I found it really hard to sit in the draft in Zwift with the Bkool trainer and it's much easier with the Neo.