Photography, new camera, can't decide

[Learnincurve]

If you are looking for more control over your photos, then a DSLR or even something like the Olypus Pen are great little cameras.

The Olly pen is a m4/3 and pretty much identical to the equivalent Panasonics.

It's the lens, and quite probably silkypix which I never go along with. Lightroom is the best, photoshop elements ok and cheaper, GIMP is free.

two generations earlier Panasonic G1 jpeg right out of camera at iso 800 with the leica 25mm f/1.4

Same picture but converted from raw.

iso 800 is high for the g1, the pictures are softer than they would be at iso 800 with the G3.

 

[Big Nick]

I've got a G5 CSC its a cracking little camera albeit a bit small for my big hands!

 

[Crackle]

Crax's camera will be shíte then.

You were doing so well too.

 

[delb0y]

I'm still very happy with my G3, Just been looking at a few of Sean Archer's G3 portrait shots, and they look awesome (to me) and suggests that I'm a long way from getting anywhere near the camera's potential. Nevertheless, this feels like a good opportunity to learn - what is it that I should be looking at / for when comparing photos from the G3 with the Nikon DSLR that I've borrowed?

 

[delb0y]

I'm actually hankering after an X100s . I reckon I can do without all those pesky lenses and the X100s might be ideal. But if I can't tell a good photograph from a poor one then I'll struggle to justify all that expense!

 

[Learnincurve]

Which Nikon have you borrowed @delb0y and which lenses do you have on both of them?

There really isn't enough between the X100 and then X100s to justify the extra hundreds of pounds, the lack of interchangeable lenses isn't as big a deal as you would think. No you can't do wildlife photography but it helps if you think of it this way - at F8 that lens is exactly what your eye sees in normal sunlight. However, I would urge you to make a choice, the X100 or the leica 25mm f/1.4 lens for the G3. The leica lens has advantages over the lens on the X100/X100s in that it is faster and there is less glare, however the iso on the X100/s is fantastic.

 

[delb0y]

Thanks LC. An X100 / X100s is really pie-in-the-sky at the moment. But I do like the idea of travelling light. I have the well-regarded Panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens for the G3 at the moment - and that makes for a nice size unit to carry around, and it's great in low light. So I probably definitely don't need an X100. But for some reason I do... Plus there's the fact I'm a beginner and have no idea what I'm doing.

The Nikon I've borrowed is a D5100. It has the standard 18-55 zoom and a Tamron 70 - 300mm zoom too. On the G3 I have the aforementioned 20mm, the kit 14-42 zoom, and a 45-200mm zoom, too.

Interestingly, I bought the 20mm lens with a GF1. I bought the package for the lens but I really like the solid feel and button placement on the GF1. I know it's old technology but I really like that camera. If only it had a EVF. But it's great to stick in the bike pannier.

What I shall do over the next day or two is set up the Nikon and the G3 as close as I can and take the same shots on both so I can really compare apples and apples. I do (so far) prefer the experience on the G3 - when I take a shot I instantly see a one or two second preview in the EVF. On the DSLR I have to lower the camera, hit the LCD button, in order to check what I've shot. It's probably a beginner's thing...

I agree with Crackle that the G3 feels a little plasticky - even the GF1 feels more solid - but when I came off the bike and slid down the road with the G3 round my neck it came out less injured than I.

Finally there's the size / weight. Isn't the old saying the best camera is the one that you'll use? I often carry the G3 (and the GF1) around with the 20mm lens, but I think I'd only take the DSLR on photographic purpose trips.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread. I look forward to seeing Crackle's comparison photos. It'll give me an idea of what I should be looking out for in my own comparisons. I should add, that I shoot in RAW, run the results through DXO Optics and save as a JPEG, go into a very old copy of Photoshop and reduce the size to 800 pixels on the longest side and load up onto Facebook, here, Flickr etc. So I'm not printing big sizes or anything...but if I ever accidentally took a good shot then it would be nice to have that option.

Phew!

Cheers
Derek

 

[Learnincurve]

The Nikon I've borrowed is a D5100. It has the standard 18-55 zoom and a Tamron 70 - 300mm zoom too.

D5100 is a great platform for good lenses, the 18-55 VR II is a great daylight lens, however the Tamron is, erm, "challenging". The colours are off and it needs a lot of light, however it's sharp enough and the contrast and look of it makes it a nice lens for black and white. I suspect going from the 20mm 1.7 you may be underwhelmed by the results, it would be a different story if the nikon had the 30mm f/1.8 on it. I used to have the Nikon D300 which is the semi-pro equivalent of the D5100 but old it because imo that higher end of the line is too heavy to lug around long distances without an assistant to do it for you.

Be aware that your friend may not know how much the value of the camera and lenses have tanked since they bought it

 

[Crackle]

OK, here's a couple of comparison shots. I've taken more but I'll just put this one up. Remeber the idea behind this for me was to decide if I should replace my ageing Pentax *ist D (now 10 years old and with a 6MP sensor) with a 4/3rds camera.

First up the G3, set to 200iso, focus on the balloons, stright convert from raw to tiff

Pentax *ist D, 200 iso, focus on ballons, convert from raw to tiff

There isn't much in it but I guess that's the point. I was expecting the Pentax to be blown away by 10 years of development, even by a 4/3rds sensor but it isn't. I've viewed both of these at 100 and 200%, the Pentax stands up pretty evenly. That doesn't make the G3 bad, it just doesn't make it better than the Pentax I want to replace. One thing I noticed with the Panasonic raw files, was that they are nowhere near as workable as the Pentax files. Whether this is Silkypix's fault I don't know but playing with the levels is not advisable as the Panasonic files darkens or washes out with the slightest movement.

I did a few more tests with continuous focus. I know this is not the csc's strongpoint but I got three shots away with the 10 year old Pentax as the dog fetched his squeaky toy and could have got two more, whereas the G3 only managed two shots. I've not tested everything, like iso performance and all the different settings, just enough to do some basic comparisons to give me an idea.

So a useful comparison for me and there are lots of things I liked about the G3, easy menus, good review, easy to use and setup, if I wasn't trying to make this a self funding upgrade I'd keep it and put a 20mm on or a pancake zoom but that would mean keeping the old Pentax which I want to upgrade and ideally I want just one camera. If the G3 was my only camera @delb0y I'd be happy to keep it.

In the meantime I think it'll go back on ebay, maybe as a separate body and lens and back to the drawing board for me. I more favour a K30 now and compromise on the portability bit.

 

[Learnincurve]

Where your pentax is outdated is high iso. You can take a 10 year old 8mp DSLR at iso 100 and at non-poster sizes it will be damn near identical as a current gen camera. Stick those same cameras in iso 800-1600 and you will immediately see the difference.

Try taking photos indoors with no flash, here's the thing, when it comes to high iso the G3 and the K30 are pretty much the same, so you can use it as a comparison between your current camera and the K30. If you are still underwhelmed then you might want to think about keeping your old camera and buying a new fast lens instead of a body upgrade.

 

[Crackle]

Where your pentax is outdated is high iso. You can take a 10 year old 8mp DSLR at iso 100 and at non-poster sizes it will be damn near identical as a current gen camera. Stick those same cameras in iso 800-1600 and you will immediately see the difference.

Try taking photos indoors with no flash, here's the thing, when it comes to high iso the G3 and the K30 are pretty much the same, so you can use it as a comparison between your current camera and the K30. If you are still underwhelmed then you might want to think about keeping your old camera and buying a new fast lens instead of a body upgrade.

You're right. The G3 has much better performance at higher iso's, I tried a few shots before. I knew this already though, it's why I rarely shoot at anything over 200 on the Pentax and if the light goes I put the 100mm F2.8 on. I had thought about a Pentax 40mm F1.8 but the other thing I decided I want out of this is the ability to use it in bad weather, hence the K30. The other thing I can't do on the Pentax is crop. It just doesn't have the resolution. No video either, which I'd also like.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

You were doing so well too.

I can only be helpful and nice for so long before it becomes tiresome and I have to call you a **** or summat.

 

[Learnincurve]

@Crackle the 100mm f/2.8 + the K30 is going to be a great combination.

Do you have a small child looking for their first camera? Keeping the G3 for a birthday present for them would be ideal.

 

[Doseone]

Crax there really isn't much to choose between the comparison photos. The g3 deals with the highlights better but the colours are punchier on the Pentax.

 

[laurence]

i still use my K100d - with some lenses (notably the 10-17) it outperforms the K30... i put it down to being 'simpler'. the K30 tends to get the exposure wrong.

saying that, i used the K30 a lot yesterday and have started using the video more and it really is a versatile piece of kit, ezpecially for the price. plus, all the old Pentax lenses fit!