Which is 'greener'? Petrol or diesel?

[young Ed]

Red Ed....

yes well.... the smallest tank i know of red round here is 900l but most are well over 1000 so hardly a shortage round here!

although we wouldn't stick it in trucks and cars etc as i here if you get caught it's something like a 2 grand fine and truck crushed?
Cheers Ed

 

[Drago]

You'd get less for robbing someone. Cheating the tax man is frowned upon far more than using force to steal form a regular victim.

 

[Andy_R]

You've also got to factor in, as @Drago has said, the enviromental problems caused during manufacture. Ironically, a lot of cars produced today that produce less gasses whilst being used, are responsible for the car industrys over gassing of the envirnoment. Many people are being scared into buying new low emission cars without thinking about the emissions created when building a new car, versus the emissions created when maintaining an old vehicle. Whilst older vehicles are less"clean" than newer ones, they are probably still cleaner in daily use than the production cycle of a new car.

 

[simon.r]

You've also got to factor in, as @Drago has said, the enviromental problems caused during manufacture. Ironically, a lot of cars produced today that produce less gasses whilst being used, are responsible for the car industrys over gassing of the envirnoment. Many people are being scared into buying new low emission cars without thinking about the emissions created when building a new car, versus the emissions created when maintaining an old vehicle. Whilst older vehicles are less"clean" than newer ones, they are probably still cleaner in daily use than the production cycle of a new car.

It may be an urban myth, but I heard once that the greenest cars on the road on a cradle to grave basis are old Land Rovers, as they tend to have a very long life span.

 

[NorthernDave]

I've got a low emission, zero VED rated diesel. Paid a premium for it, but wanted to be as green as I could.
Now our political masters are turning against diesel and it looks like they are about to introduce a charge for driving what they told me was the greenest car to buy into the city where I live, despite car sharing...
Obviously the value of the car will plummet when this happens, hitting me again.

 

[albion]

There is to be a 100% ban of diesels in Paris by 2020.
Expect plenty of lobbying to keep diesel, yet with all these dirty new diesel cars, London is said to have the most polluted street in the world.
No one is banning them here yet, but residents at the highest risk suing their council may well see to that.

Out of interest, is there no cheap way to convert all these miss sold cars to a safer fuel ?

 

[gavroche]

Diesel for me, always. I wouldn't believe the so called "expert" saying diesel is polluting. A well set diesel engine is relatively clean. Diesel is so popular now that they will find all sorts of excuses to knock it down. A diesel engine is stronger , more reliable, longer lasting than a petrol one and of course more economical.

 

[albion]

The Great Car Con explained - seems it was all a tax dodge we got sold as green.
http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/the-great-car-con-channel-4-dispatches
Myth as facts are inseparable. Only real science does not change.

“Carmakers are trying to greenwash dirty diesel to hide the truth that compared to a petrol car a typical new diesel car on the road emits 10 times more nitrogen oxides. While carmakers claim modern diesels are clean they are pushing to delay and weaken the introduction of new pollution tests. This is because most new diesels can’t reach the limits agreed back in 2007 without fitting new technology,” says Archer."
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...ars-been-unfairly-demonised-for-air-pollution

 

[albion]

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lung-cancer-deaths/

So, does driving a diesel car now put you in the same high risk category as a trucker ? (maybe bus depots and similar ilk are the worst)
And what of residents on this new very high level exposure? (when up to 50% of new cars are diesel)

 

[Piemaster]

yes well.... the smallest tank i know of red round here is 900l but most are well over 1000 so hardly a shortage round here!

Pfft. Thats about 3 hours running for my company vehicle (if being driven economically).

The whole diesel not being a green fuel thing wasn't a surprise to me. It was actually more of a surprise how long it took before the media and public became aware of it.
Modern engines may be more efficient, burning less fuel but to do that combustion temperatures have had to go up, which increases the NOx. The fuel is still the same basic stuff as in the rattly old engines of yore (much less sulphur content now). Doubt the chemistry has changed much (though I'll admit it is a few years since I last studied it).
That C4 article mentions CO2, and the switch to diesel to reduce CO2 emissions. It may not be an environmentally friendly gas but it is inert (fire extingushers are filled with it) and thus I no direct damaging effect on humans in the way diesels are being blamed for. Well, apart for killing you if in a room full of it as it will exclude the oxygen.

 

[Drago]

A diesel engine is stronger , more reliable, longer lasting than a petrol one and of course more economical.

well, an olde fashioned IDI diseases like mine is, but that's not true of modern ones - common rail high pressure injection, VGT turbo, DPFs, DMFs, EOYLs/urea injection, lightweight materials in the interests of weight saving etc have all turned the modern diesel into something that's relatively fragile compared to a modern petrol motor, especially if it's used much of the time in the urban environment.

 

[Globalti]

A proper square Land Rover is the greenest vehicle on the planet because they can be repaired and refurbished ad infinitum using parts taken off other Land Rovers, with no need to throw them away.

 

[User482]

Modern DPFs take the majority away (85%-100%)

I work with air quality experts and they tell me all the research shows this isn't really true: diesels continue to perform very poorly in the urban environment as they are the dominant source of particulates and NOx, both of which are bad for our health, and cause premature deaths in our cities. The Euro emissions standards have little or no relation to reality, and contacts at the VCA tell me manufacturers are well versed in the art of engine tuning to beat the test (in fact they do it through computer simulation).

Petrol performs much better in this respect, but claims of efficiency for the latest engines are wide of the mark: driving like a vicar in slippers, I managed to coax 40mpg round town, and 50mpg on the motorway out of the latest ecoboost Fiesta - it's supposed to do 65mpg.

 

[User482]

A proper square Land Rover is the greenest vehicle on the planet because they can be repaired and refurbished ad infinitum using parts taken off other Land Rovers, with no need to throw them away.

Only if you don't drive it.

 

[Globalti]

I work with air quality experts and they tell me all the research shows this isn't really true: diesels continue to perform very poorly in the urban environment as they are the dominant source of particulates and NOx, both of which are bad for our health, and cause premature deaths in our cities. The Euro emissions standards have little or no relation to reality, and contacts at the VCA tell me manufacturers are well versed in the art of engine tuning to beat the test (in fact they do it through computer simulation).

Petrol performs much better in this respect, but claims of efficiency for the latest engines are wide of the mark: driving like a vicar in slippers, I managed to coax 40mpg round town, and 50mpg on the motorway out of the latest ecoboost Fiesta - it's supposed to do 65mpg.

If you are waiting behind any modern petrol-engined car in the dark and your headlights happen to be shining down the exhaust pipes you'll notice that the steel inside is absolutely spotless. It wasn't always so!