2 Abreast cycling is simply not safe.

[coffeejo]

Lack of forward motion?

Plenty of sideways momentum. Too much, one could say.

 

[sheddy]

Overtaking two abreast is only a problem for long vehicles or vehicle/trailer combos.

BTW if we are referring to 'Cyclists' then we should refer to 'Motorists'.
Let's reserve 'Drivers' for sporting events on closed roads or the dodgems.

.

 

[Globalti]

Define a polite pip as opposed to I'm coming through no matter what pip.......

.....I just don't get why you would feel the need to be beeped at.

A polite pip is the briefest "pip"of the horn lasting a good deal less than a second, what you get if you tap the horn button. Any longer becomes increasingly aggressive.

I feel the need to be pipped at because I obey the rules of the road, exactly the same as I do when driving my car. I recognise that as a road user I need to be courteous to other users and that includes not needlessly hindering vehicles that move faster than me. So when I'm rding along beside my buddy and a car comes up behind, we single out to let them past unless we are on a really wide stretch of road. Sometimes you don't hear cars until they are right behind you, so a polite pip would have been useful as they approached from behind. However most cyclists and drivers would not be able to distinguish a polite pip as part of the mutual give and take of road use, from a blast of frustration.

 

[coffeejo]

I hate both horns and bells, even when they are used with good intentions.

 

[summerdays]

I hate both horns and bells, even when they are used with good intentions.

One of my friends always uses a bell to be polite when approaching blind corners etc, even if she is behind me, and I'm going around it first! Whereas I only use it on a few occasions when I think someone is unaware of me and could suddenly step into my path, but I'm more likely to say hello etc.

 

[sheddy]

or she might just be warning you of a wardrobe malfunction...

 

[shouldbeinbed]

A polite pip is the briefest "pip"of the horn lasting a good deal less than a second, what you get if you tap the horn button. Any longer becomes increasingly aggressive.

I feel the need to be pipped at because I obey the rules of the road, exactly the same as I do when driving my car. I recognise that as a road user I need to be courteous to other users and that includes not needlessly hindering vehicles that move faster than me. So when I'm rding along beside my buddy and a car comes up behind, we single out to let them past unless we are on a really wide stretch of road. Sometimes you don't hear cars until they are right behind you, so a polite pip would have been useful as they approached from behind. However most cyclists and drivers would not be able to distinguish a polite pip as part of the mutual give and take of road use, from a blast of frustration.

I obey the rules if the road too and feel no need whatsoever to be pipped.

Maybe my mirrors help me be better aware of my surrounding than being taken by surprise by a stealth vehicle.

 

[MontyVeda]

I can't say I'm surprised by that, calling people stupid can be quite offensive to some.

Still trying and failing to be a troll I see.

 

[gavintc]

I obey the rules if the road too and feel no need whatsoever to be pipped.

Maybe my mirrors help me be better aware of my surrounding than being taken by surprise by a stealth vehicle.

Bipping the horn is quite common in europe (well I have heard it in Italy, France and Switzerland). It is not aggressive and merely states, I am here and am overtaking.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Bipping the horn is quite common in europe (well I have heard it in Italy, France and Switzerland). It is not aggressive and merely states, I am here and am overtaking.

I'm sure if I were in those countries and bipping the horn had those less aggressive connotations then I might feel differently about it happening to me in Greater Manchester but we don't have that supposedly friendly convention with horn use over here so it's rather a moot point.

Also it is still from what you say used in a manner that says I'm coming through regardless, and seems to imply a lack of awareness on the part of the cyclist if they need telling a vehicle is in their immediate vicinity.

 

[Globalti]

I disagree completely. I bet you'll be able to find that somebody, somewhere, has done a few little trials and has discovered that the level of aggression is directly in proportion to the length of the blast. If motorists understood that cyclists are partially deafened by the wind noise in their ears, they might be more willing to pip their horns from a hundred yards back so as to give advance warning. Clearly this can only work on quiet rural roads and would fail in city traffic.

 

[coffeejo]

I disagree completely. I bet you'll be able to find that somebody, somewhere, has done a few little trials and has discovered that the level of aggression is directly in proportion to the length of the blast. If motorists understood that cyclists are partially deafened by the wind noise in their ears, they might be more willing to pip their horns from a hundred yards back so as to give advance warning. Clearly this can only work on quiet rural roads and would fail in city traffic.

Long may it not occur to them!

 

[jefmcg]

hey might be more willing to pip their horns from a hundred yards back so as to give advance warning.

warning of what? If a driver is passing me with plenty of clearance, what are they warning me about? I only need to be aware of their presence if some action is required of me. To me, even a friendly toot says "coming through, move over"

 

[EnPassant]

Long may it not occur to them!

For me and I suspect I'm not alone, the issue is that horns in this country at least are not used for "Hi I'm here and I don't want to cause you distress because you didn't notice me" they are used for either "You blithering idiot, what the ***** and ***** and ***** you!" or as already pointed out "Get the **** out of my way"

I accept that a shorter use could be considered polite, sadly this isn't what passes through most peoples minds as the first thought.

It simply isn't as easy to differentiate as with headlight flashing. (the use of which iirc as a "I've seen you please go" tool isn't supported by the highway code anyway, even though it's in everyday use)

 

[coffeejo]

For me and I suspect I'm not alone, the issue is that horns in this country at least are not used for "Hi I'm here and I don't want to cause you distress because you didn't notice me" they are used for either "You blithering idiot, what the ***** and ***** and ***** you!" or as already pointed out "Get the **** out of my way"

I accept that a shorter use could be considered polite, sadly this isn't what passes through most peoples minds as the first thought.

It simply isn't as easy to differentiate as with headlight flashing. (the use of which iirc as a "I've seen you please go" tool isn't supported by the highway code anyway, even though it's in everyday use)

Round here, some people hit the horn at blind bends but that assumes that the oncoming driver (if there is one) had heard the noise - if they can hear at all. Better, IMHO, to respect the road and the conditions.