2 more women die in London

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deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Or the red Arctic?
I don't think so, it's on a side road from warehousing south of the DLR line and is yet to enter the North Woolwich Road. More likely that it's south east London's own Primagrange Waste Management, who as @User9609 points out were involved (Primagrange truck and driver subcontracting for Keltbray.) in the earlier accident.
 
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Trickedem

Guru
Location
Kent
This is on my commute and I got diverted around the incident which was still being investigated several hours later. There is a shared space cycle lane here, but it is really poor quality and gives way to every side road, most of which lead to construction sites. I stick to the main road which is a dual carriageway, because it's marginally better. Not sure if it is relevant, but a large section of the shared path before this incident is closed off along with one of the road lanes. So cyclists who normally use the cycle lane either have to dismount or go on the road. There was a big traffic jam there this morning, along with the normal impatient behaviour
 

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
Perhaps what we need is a statistician, to explain about noise and anomalies.
@srw?

Not a statistician, and not srw, but if I may?

Let's start with the figure @mjr posted:
Continuing this from the duplicate discussion...

I'm such a sucker for this. Here's 5 years I can see easily:
2015 - 6 women, 3 men; (upthread)
2014 - 1 woman, 13 men; (met - city)
2013 - 5 women, 8 men;
2012 - 1 woman, 13 men;
2011 - 6 women, 10 men;
total - 19 women, 47 men... seems closer to 5/8ths than 2/3rds, but still a majority. So what are the other five years, are the pre-2011 (so pre-cycle-hire-and-superhighways) figures relevant to today and have male and female cycling rates developed at different rates?

The first thing to note is that the numbers are actually very small (this is not to detract in any way that each number represents an individual tragedy) compared to the many billions of journeys by bike that have taken place in the same period. I'll leave a space for @srw to comment about denominator neglect here...

Each fatality is a dscrete and presumably independent event, so use of the Poisson distribution is appropriate. The important thing is that the standard deviation is thus given by taking the square root of the total. The standard deviation is a statistical measure of the likely variability of a measured quantity. For instance, if you take many measurements if some quantity x and its mean is 10 with a std dev of 2, the true value of x is probably somewhere between 8 and 12 [1].

So, taking the totals:

Women 19
Std dev 4.36
Men 47
Std dev 6.86

But we haven't taken account of the fact that there are more male cyclists than female. IIRC the TfL figure was 25% of cyclists are female, so a quick and dirty way is simply to scale (or normalise, if you're a physicist) all numbers to 100%. For women, that means multiplying by 4 (4 x 25 = 100), for men, multiply by 1.333 (75 x 1.333 = 100) [2]. Thus our normalised figures are:

Women 76
Std dev 17.44
Men 63
Std dev 9.14

Thus the natural variations in fatalities over the 5 years for both men and women, normalised to compensate for differences in each population are in the range:

Men: 54 to 72
Women 59 to 93

Both ranges coincide. If there were a thousand identical Londons, the fatality rate for each of them would probably lie within this range just through chance (but see [1] below). There is no reason to believe therefore that women are over-represented in cycling fatalities in London with the figures as presented. Natural - random - noise is large and total fatalities are - thankfully! - low: this means that if any systematic difference exists, it's buried in the noise. [3]

Note that I've used a rather crude method here. A more rigorous method would to apply the appropriate t-test to the data to test for the probability of the two populations being different. With overlapping variances, it is highly unlikely to give a significant result. I'll leave that one to the proper statisticians.

Oh, and just to reiterate - cycling, even in central London, is a very safe activity.

[1] Pedantic statistician's note: assuming a normal distribution, there is a 68% probability of x being somewhere between 8 and 12. Therefore, there is a 32% chance of x lying outside this range.

[2] Yes, I could have saved myself some effort and just multplied the female data by three. But then, I am a physicist...

[3] Alert (or possibly awake) readers will have noticed that I've used standard deviation in a rather different way to how I defined it above. This is because there is no uncertaincy in the number of fatalties. But there is a large and random year to year variation. Standard deviation in this case refers to the amount of randomness in these figures that can be expected.

Edited to correct silly mistake in the normalised female fatality number - which decreases the difference between men and women.
 
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subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
[QUOTE 4675119, member: 9609"]quite possibly, and there is nothing whatsoevr at this stage to suggest the driver is in anyway at fault.

I think it has just said on the news that the cyclist was a young man - very very sad news whatever the circumstances. It really does sicken me hearing of these incidents.[/QUOTE]


but had to be flagged down as didn't know he had squished the guy. really. didn't know . FFS
 

theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
[QUOTE 4675119, member: 9609"] there is nothing whatsoevr at this stage to suggest the driver is in anyway at fault.
[/QUOTE]
Other than a person being dead.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
Not a statistician, and not srw, but if I may?
I'm not a statistician either - I just use some of the tools of real statisticians in a fairly ad-hoc way, including as it happens the sort of tool you're using (the variability in the occurrence of rare events being one of my stock-in-trades).

But I can't see anything material to complain about in the analysis.

I think you're being quite generous in focussing on the rather narrow interval of one SD either side of a mean - the null hypothesis is that there is no difference between the sexes, so to establish a difference I'd want some certainty to a stronger confidence. You're also being quite generous in taking a straight mean of the data. In the real world I'd want to normalise each year for some sort of exposure measure - even during the time represented by the dataset you've used the number of cyclists in London has grown a lot.

But both of those refinements would make it even more difficult to discern a difference, so the conclusions would be no different.

I'll leave a space for @srw to comment about denominator neglect here...

Talking of which....

A number of people have pointed out in this thread that cycling in London is very very safe. The best representation of this I know of is the wonderful post "Risk, cycling and denominator neglect" by @jo from the other place. (http://www.gicentre.net/blog/2013/11/24/risk-cycling-and-denominator-neglect). The picture below I have shamelessly stolen from his website. It represents 219 million bike journeys made in London during 2012. Each grey block is made up of 25,000 individual figures, mostly grey, representing 25,000 safe bike journeys. Buried somewhere with this large picture are 14 orange figures, representing 14 fatalities, and 657 blue figures, representing 657 serious injuries. Finding them is left as an exercise for the reader.

[edit]
I realise that the forum software means that it's extremely difficult to make out the grey blocks. Each row of the picture consists of 6 super-blocks which you can just about make out. Each super-block is made up of 13 grey blocks of 25,000 safe journeys, so represents 325,000 safe journeys.


219mJourneys.png
 
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mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
"IIRC the TfL figure was 25% of cyclists are female" Can anyone find a link to confirm it so that @McWobble can link it maybe, please?

I'm thinking about the other bits but certainly nothing there seems as outrageous as some of the shoot included in developer transport plans!
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
"IIRC the TfL figure was 25% of cyclists are female" Can anyone find a link to confirm it so that @McWobble can link it maybe, please?

I'm thinking about the other bits but certainly nothing there seems as outrageous as some of the shoot included in developer transport plans!
Table 4 on this might help: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/casualties-in-greater-london-2015.pdf

EDIT: though reading further, it only gives casualties not the overall numbers
And Table 4.1 below gives a gender breakdown between cyclists with different travel frequencies.
http://content.tfl.gov.uk/analysis-of-cycling-potential.pdf
 
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theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
I wouldn't prejudge things. There is such a thing as due process.
Otherwise, if you are found in the same building as a dead person, you are guilty?
No need for an investigation.

RIP, condolences to the family.
I'm afraid the comparison makes no sense to me. The driver was driving the lorry when it killed the cyclist - he's not some person that just happened to be there when it happened. This is not a whodunnit.
 
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