2 or 4 panniers????
- Thread starter swede101
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doog
....
- Location
- The beautiful south
Willem can afford the lightest of the light hence the two panniers he suggests. Many tourers starting out wouldnt dream of paying those prices on kit for fear of not getting the bug. Likewise many tourers want a bit of space to chuck a bottle of red and a few luxuries, plus keep with some old tried and tested (but not so light) kit.
If you have a front pannier rack and 4 panniers I so no reason why any sane person wouldn't attach them to the bike
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If you have a front pannier rack and 4 panniers I so no reason why any sane person wouldn't attach them to the bike
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I might leave the stool behind though.If you have a front pannier rack and 4 panniers I so no reason why any sane person wouldn't attach them to the bike
It is true that the very lightest gear can be expensive. At the same time lightweight gear need not be more expensive, on the contrary. For the Dutch Cycle Touring Club I have written a manual on first time cycle touring: http://www.leonpoels.nl/fietsen/deeerstekeeropfietsvakantie.pdf My argument is that it need not be expensive. The first part is about touring with a bike you already have (what can you do, and what not?). The second part is mostly about the other gear you need, or not. To make my point, I present three equipment lists for two people with the basics of tent, panniers, mattresses and sleeping bags. I first present a traditional list such as many people in Holland would take, and then two lightweight alternatives, one ultimate, the other low budget. Interestingly even the budget gear list is much lighter, but also a lot cheaper. The trick is that the money saved on front panniers and front racks is used to reduce the volume and weight of the rest. On top of that, it carefully selects some very good budget gear. I am sorry it is all in Dutch, but translating all this did not seem particularly useful since both the bikes people may have and the stuff you can buy in the shops is quite different from what is available in the UK. But the same logic applies.
Willem
Willem
rollinstok
Well-Known Member
- Location
- morecambe
I was a backpacker before taking up cycle touring and had learned the hard way about which items to take with me and which to leave at home.
Weight and volume should be taken into consideration with everything you take.
I agree with the above post that it is possible to buy very light gear at a reasonable price.
For my first cycle tour I didn't apply the logic that I had learned while backpacking and got carried away with the excitement of it all. I set off for Scotland with 4 panniers and a barbag and struggled up hills carrying gear that I never used once or very little. After this I only ever used 2 panniers and a bar bag. I have only toured for a maximum of 2 weeks within Europe and found I dont want for anything with just a 11/12 kg total load in 2 panniers plus the bar bag.
If I did extended touring in wide expanses of country with only a few population centres spread apart, then I would definitely take front panniers as well.
People are different, I have met several backpackers who tour the world with a 50 litre rucksack. I have also been in a backpackers field on a campsite in Keswick when the driver of a Mondeo pulled up, deposited 2 teenagers, bin bag after bin bag of goods until there was a 5ft pile then said "bye, see you next week " and drove off.
Weight and volume should be taken into consideration with everything you take.
I agree with the above post that it is possible to buy very light gear at a reasonable price.
For my first cycle tour I didn't apply the logic that I had learned while backpacking and got carried away with the excitement of it all. I set off for Scotland with 4 panniers and a barbag and struggled up hills carrying gear that I never used once or very little. After this I only ever used 2 panniers and a bar bag. I have only toured for a maximum of 2 weeks within Europe and found I dont want for anything with just a 11/12 kg total load in 2 panniers plus the bar bag.
If I did extended touring in wide expanses of country with only a few population centres spread apart, then I would definitely take front panniers as well.
People are different, I have met several backpackers who tour the world with a 50 litre rucksack. I have also been in a backpackers field on a campsite in Keswick when the driver of a Mondeo pulled up, deposited 2 teenagers, bin bag after bin bag of goods until there was a 5ft pile then said "bye, see you next week " and drove off.
doog
....
- Location
- The beautiful south
Willem
I have based my post above on reading your posts on here and CTC over the last few years. Your low budget lightweight list of £800 is not a budget list I'm afraid. Most people cannot afford to justify spending that sort of money on a hobby they are just starting out on. I base this on the fact that some posters on here or CTC appear to be travelling Europe / UK in the summer, many are first timers and 'once only's ..ie LEJOG etc
Can I offer a realist 'budget list or even traditional compared to yours for UK buyers .
Tent Vango Banshee 200 £100
Footprint if needed B&Q grounsheet £5
Sleeping bag Vango 2 season £30
Sleeping mat Highlander / Trek lightweight £30
Panniers Altura Arrans 46 £50
Total £215
2 front panniers : Deuter / Carradice at £20 each
Front rack £20
This is a realistic, relatively lightweight starter kit that would last a few years, or at least until it needs replacing / upgrading and the user is sure of their new found hobby.
I have based my post above on reading your posts on here and CTC over the last few years. Your low budget lightweight list of £800 is not a budget list I'm afraid. Most people cannot afford to justify spending that sort of money on a hobby they are just starting out on. I base this on the fact that some posters on here or CTC appear to be travelling Europe / UK in the summer, many are first timers and 'once only's ..ie LEJOG etc
Can I offer a realist 'budget list or even traditional compared to yours for UK buyers .
Tent Vango Banshee 200 £100
Footprint if needed B&Q grounsheet £5
Sleeping bag Vango 2 season £30
Sleeping mat Highlander / Trek lightweight £30
Panniers Altura Arrans 46 £50
Total £215
2 front panniers : Deuter / Carradice at £20 each
Front rack £20
This is a realistic, relatively lightweight starter kit that would last a few years, or at least until it needs replacing / upgrading and the user is sure of their new found hobby.
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
Really it's not a question of how many panniers, but how much space their is in your panniers.
for example... dave davenport has 2x 48ltr panniers, 96ltrs all in all.
I have 2x12.5 on the front and 2x 17.5 on the back, 60ltrs in all and fully packed, I've still got space for a bottle of wine and a couple of big Danish pastries, plus the tops of both racks are free for that bargain replica model Spanish galleon or whatever else i may want to bung on.
for example... dave davenport has 2x 48ltr panniers, 96ltrs all in all.
I have 2x12.5 on the front and 2x 17.5 on the back, 60ltrs in all and fully packed, I've still got space for a bottle of wine and a couple of big Danish pastries, plus the tops of both racks are free for that bargain replica model Spanish galleon or whatever else i may want to bung on.
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
it does sound awfully big... so could be a typo.
rollinstok
Well-Known Member
- Location
- morecambe
I have used a pair of Karrimor Kalahari rear panniers that expand from 60l to 75l per pair for a number of years
I like the extra space because I'm a little bit different than most people in the way I pack
One pannier has several eyelets that I put in to "air" the tent as I hate having a damp tent night after night. I pack the tent loose into this pannier with the sleeping bag on top in a dry bag. Tools and spares are kept in the rear pocket of this bag. Clothes go into the other pannier with the washkit in the rear pocket. Both panniers have room in the top for purchases of food etc and are still in the unexpanded position.
I wrap the mat in polythene and tie this to the top of the rack.
I like the extra space because I'm a little bit different than most people in the way I pack
One pannier has several eyelets that I put in to "air" the tent as I hate having a damp tent night after night. I pack the tent loose into this pannier with the sleeping bag on top in a dry bag. Tools and spares are kept in the rear pocket of this bag. Clothes go into the other pannier with the washkit in the rear pocket. Both panniers have room in the top for purchases of food etc and are still in the unexpanded position.
I wrap the mat in polythene and tie this to the top of the rack.
I do not want to argue about what people should spend or not. Let me first clarify one thing that may have been lost in translation, however: the 800 pounds was for two people and not one as in your example. The quality/cost level that I chose by way of example of traditional gear was typical of what many Dutch couples would use and was chosen for that reason.This is good gear that will last 10-15 years. My argument was that by getting (much) lighter stuff one could get kit that was at least as good and at least as comfortable as that traditional kit, but for rather less money. At a cost of some 50-80 pounds per year it is, therefore, very good value, I think. The Dutch text also includes a discussion of using what you already have or could borrow (and there is plenty of good second hand stuff). That is quite relevant because in Holland many people already own camping gear (and do not need persuading that camping is fun). The only thing they may not have is panniers. The text argues that you may need less than what the shops try to sell you, and that investing in compact sleeping kit is worth the money. Each year I give presentations at annual fairs on cycle touring such as the one in Amsterdam that draws more than 20000 visitors each year (yes). If there is one thing that strikes me time and again it is the belief by many inexperienced people that they need all this stuff that is pushed so hard by the trade.
In a different line of argument, I am always a bit surprised that many people think nothing of staying in B&B's and hostels, or eating out in pubs, but frown on investment in good gear. 800 pounds is an investment in camping gear you can earn back in perhaps two longish summer holidays. And yet it will last many times longer. So I still maintain lighter is not more expensive than the equivalent traditional kit, and that investing in quality kit is one of the better investments you can do.
Willem
In a different line of argument, I am always a bit surprised that many people think nothing of staying in B&B's and hostels, or eating out in pubs, but frown on investment in good gear. 800 pounds is an investment in camping gear you can earn back in perhaps two longish summer holidays. And yet it will last many times longer. So I still maintain lighter is not more expensive than the equivalent traditional kit, and that investing in quality kit is one of the better investments you can do.
Willem
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
out of interest Willem... what's the capacity of your two panniers plus a bar bag?
(as I recall from ancient discussions on this subject)
(as I recall from ancient discussions on this subject)
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
Looks as if I'm doing things right for me then
, so in a couple of weeks time I'll be clipping on four panniers and a barbag with a back pack containing a few extras lashed on the rear rack. Now I just have to decide where to go.
, so in a couple of weeks time I'll be clipping on four panniers and a barbag with a back pack containing a few extras lashed on the rear rack. Now I just have to decide where to go.15 year old Ortlieb backrollers, so something like 20+20 litres. The bar bag is an old Ortlieb medium of I think 5 litres. The tent goes on top of the rack, and the bottle of meths for the Trangia in a Bikebuddy underneath the down tube. On trips in cold weather such as in Norway the panniers are full, but not in warm weather. I have enough space for food and a bottle (or rather a Platypreserve) of wine.
vernon
Harder than Ronnie Pickering
- Location
- Meanwood, Leeds
I have used four panniers and two panniers with equal success.
I have returned to using four panniers and, in addition have bought a bar bag and a rack pack
Why the change of heart?
Because I am now using Carradice Super C cotton duck products and I think it looks ace on m,y new bike.
I will have lots of spare capacity but it does mean that I can bring back loads of wine from Europe.
I have returned to using four panniers and, in addition have bought a bar bag and a rack pack
Why the change of heart?
Because I am now using Carradice Super C cotton duck products and I think it looks ace on m,y new bike.
I will have lots of spare capacity but it does mean that I can bring back loads of wine from Europe.
