20 mph speed limit on the way?

[Rhythm Thief]

All roads except Motorways should be single lane. The rest of the road for cyclists and pedestrians (with proper surfacing and protection from motor lane).

David

Well that would make, say, the journey to South Wales from the Midlands about three million times more dangerous than it is now for the vast majority of road users. Any more great ideas?

 

[Elmer Fudd]

My personal opinion is that :-
If you are batting down a road at, say, 25mph in a 30 zone, on a bike, it may hold a driver up, it may not, but the majority here seem to have a downer on vehicle drivers.

So, if the limit is dropped to a 20mph zone (which I agree with in highly congested areas, outside schools, shopping areas etc.), do you think it's right for cars to be doing 20mph while you whizz past at 25mph ?

This brings to mind pot and kettle (the law applies to you, not me) and seems to me to be just a tad hypocritical.

Imagine, kid on way to school, sees car going at 20mph, thinks " I can get to the ped island before car gets here, so runs across road, only to get taken out by a cyclist doing 25-26mph that he didn't see overtaking the car.

I'm sure the fact that you are technically (if not legally) breaking the law, will really enamour the cycling fraternity to motorists.

BTW. I don't need a speed camera or sign to tell me to drive at 20mph, if I think 10mph is the safest speed to drive at, that's the speed I do (and yes, at 3am in the morning, when I'm on the M6 all alone I'll do 90mph, because it's safe and empty.

 

[Cab]

I know we're not covered by speeding laws (outside Richmond Park or wherever a local bylaw applies)

Dom details that the law doesn't apply to cyclists, pedestrians, horseriders and invalid carriages

OK. I accept your point about kinetic energy and risk, when applied to cyclists and pedestrians...

Good.

...but how do you feel about someone riding a horse down a residential street at more than 20mph ?

I'd be startled to see it, and I would be concerned for the welfare of the animal. As for the risk involved, I wouldn't have thought that we're imposing an real risk on society by allowing it; horses are allowed to do that, and you know what? They don't.

Or an electric wheelchair ?

I'd be terrified, those things would be chronically unsafe to be in at that kind of speed. I'd rather see legislation to limit their speeds below that.

The speed limit law doesn't apply to them.

But the kinetic energy->damage & injury point does, as does the lack of control->risk

If we are to have a 20mph limit, I think it should apply to all traffic, including cycles and anything else on the road.

Any argument about the risk being low if it's done sensibly and safely is very much the sort of argument S*** Sp**d peddle

You're getting rather obscure here I think. You've accepted that cyclists don't pose such a risk, but because you believe electric wheelchairs and horses might you believe cyclists should be required to stick to the speed limit? I just don't see how that follows at all. And as for comparing it with that campaign site, thats unworthy of you.

 

[Cab]

A cyclist killed a pedestrian at 25mph recently. That implies that Cab is wrong.

You'll note I referred to that, within the context of such things being vanishingly rare.

 

[Cab]

Hahahaha, funny that! No-one wants speeding on their home streets.

And this is the bit that is often forgotten. You know the kind of thing, people complain about speeding near to home, then they get in their cars and whizz along someone elses suburban streets that are clearly okay at 35-40mph. Honestly, I think a blanket 20mph limit in urban areas would make a great deal of sense.

 

[Cab]

My personal opinion is that :-
If you are batting down a road at, say, 25mph in a 30 zone, on a bike, it may hold a driver up, it may not, but the majority here seem to have a downer on vehicle drivers.

So, if the limit is dropped to a 20mph zone (which I agree with in highly congested areas, outside schools, shopping areas etc.), do you think it's right for cars to be doing 20mph while you whizz past at 25mph ?

This exposes a flaw in how you're looking at speed.

If I'm doing 25mph in a 30mph zone then realistically I'm holding no one up. They'd have to put on a spurt over the speed limit to get past safely, and you can nearly guarantee that I'll catch them at the lights. Note, I'm not someone who cruises at 25mph very often!

If I'm behind a car doing 20mph, then so be it. I'm not likely to 'whizz' past them (25mph isn't whizzing past someone, the comparative speed difference is 5mph, or walking speed), I'm more likely to wait behind them because there is no point overtaking.

This brings to mind pot and kettle (the law applies to you, not me) and seems to me to be just a tad hypocritical.

Not really. The law does apply to the motorist, and not the cyclist. Like the law about having reflectors on the pedals of new bicycles; do you want to impose that on motorists too?

Imagine, kid on way to school, sees car going at 20mph, thinks " I can get to the ped island before car gets here, so runs across road, only to get taken out by a cyclist doing 25-26mph that he didn't see overtaking the car.

You mean, he didn't see the cyclist going marginally faster than the car, and the cyclist was breaking other road laws by cycling dangerously? And the kid went out into the road over a difference in road speed equivalent to ambling along? Its a pretty bizarre scenario you have come up with there.

I'm sure the fact that you are technically (if not legally) breaking the law, will really enamour the cycling fraternity to motorists.

Or, in other words, because cycles will realistically be able to go marginally faster than cars (if cars aren't in their way), motorists will get the hump? Sorry, I rekon they need to get over it.

BTW. I don't need a speed camera or sign to tell me to drive at 20mph, if I think 10mph is the safest speed to drive at, that's the speed I do (and yes, at 3am in the morning, when I'm on the M6 all alone I'll do 90mph, because it's safe and empty.

Legally not your decision to make. Really. For all sorts of reasons, you shouldn't do that.

 

[andy_wrx]

Cab
Honestly, I think a blanket 20mph limit in urban areas would make a great deal of sense.

So do I.

Except I think it should apply to everyone.

You seem to think cyclists should be exempt.

 

[Cab]

So do I.

Except I think it should apply to everyone.

You seem to think cyclists should be exempt.

I know that cyclists are exempt, and I have explained one of the reasons why that makes sense. I could also add that cyclists can't accelerate to faster than 20mph as fast as cars, they can't maintain such speeds for as long, they don't carry registration details or spedometers so enforcement (or even volountarily obeying the law) is difficult if not impossible... Its just a silly requirement.

 

[BentMikey]

That's excellent MrP!!!!

 

[John Ponting]

... (and yes, at 3am in the morning, when I'm on the M6 all alone I'll do 90mph, because it's safe and empty.

Possibly not the best thing to say on here Elmer - it's almost as though you feel you can make decisions about, and take responsibility for, your own actions

 

[Cab]

Possibly not the best thing to say on here Elmer - it's almost as though you feel you can make decisions about, and take responsibility for, your own actions

We all do that, to the extent that we have a legal right to. To argue that you're somehoe 'special' and you have the right to take action outside of the law, do illegal things... Do I really need to explain why thats not such a great attitude?

 

[davidwalton]

Well that would make, say, the journey to South Wales from the Midlands about three million times more dangerous than it is now for the vast majority of road users. Any more great ideas?

Don't knock ideas until tested or tried.

Well, we could continue the trend of increasing the road widths so more and more cars can get through, but that doesn't work either.

There has to be a turnabout with thinking on roads. Just adding and widening is no longer an option. The M25 is proof of that, as are a few other motorways and roads. Throwing money away is all that has been achieved as far as I can see. How many more millions is it going to take to still not improve the system?

The only thing you can do is recognise that roads have limits. As many are now full to flowing over, other measures are needed to help ensure safe passage for all.

Motor vehicle drivers generally do not help provide a safe place for other users, just themselves if lucky. So what do you do to ensure others can use the road?

David

 

[bonj2]

The father of a friend of my son is a cycle copper. Last week they staked out a bus lane leading to a major junction on a main road into Birmingham. They were there for an hour in the morning rush hour, and ticketed 42 drivers for using the bus lane to cut the queues.

The competent drivers were cheering, clapping and thanking the police.

He also stopped a guy for speeding past the primary school while on his phone. The guy asked him not to do him, as he already had 6 points. He's got 9 now.

it's amazing how many drivers keep out of bus lanes all the time that are only actually peak time bus lanes. A lot of the bus lanes round here have signs saying 'Mon-Fri 6:30-9:30 / 16:30-18:30' or something yet people still queue in the other main lane.

 

[magnatom]

it's amazing how many drivers keep out of bus lanes all the time that are only actually peak time bus lanes. A lot of the bus lanes round here have signs saying 'Mon-Fri 6:30-9:30 / 16:30-18:30' or something yet people still queue in the other main lane.

You don't expect people to read signs do you? We have some lanes like that down our way. I love it when driving the car as you can fly past queuing traffic in much the same way as being on the bike .

 

[Cab]

Ahh, yes, bus lanes. That cyclists share. Or in Cambridge the 'only parking here for five minutes, I'll be in and out in a juffy' lanes, otherwise known as the 'filtering to turn left oh who'd have thought there would be bicycles here' lanes.

Such a good idea in practice, so badly enforced though.