20 mph speed limit.

[Alex321]

The 85th percentile rule was always moronic. What about local residents? Drivers nearly all think they're above average skill, so you can't let them determine how fast is the top safe limit.

Why do local residents make a difference?

It was generally agreed among road safety experts that the majority of people would actually drive at a safe speed, but a proportion wouldn't.

That proportion is thought to be a bit under 15%, which is where the 85% "rule" came in.

I believe it is still used in many parts of the US.

 

[the snail]

Many cars have had this for years. Can't say I use it - I just set the cruise and disengage it as necessary.

Mine even has a thingy that shows you how fast you are going and pedals you can use to change your speed - whatever will they think of next?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Sounds like many stretches of the M25

You have to be moving first....

 

[glasgowcyclist]

All I am saying is that it is specious to compare those who deliberately and consciously break the law with those who do so by mistake.

In my opinion, all driving, good or bad, is a choice.

 

[Ian H]

Forgive me for rearranging your words.

...All I am saying is that it is specious to compare those who deliberately and consciously break the law with those who do so by mistake.

given the high likelihood of harm when driving negligently

 

[Drago]

All I am saying is that it is specious to compare those who deliberately and consciously break the law with those who do so by mistake.

Not by mistake. By negligence.

That negligence kills people.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

One could even say speeding is mostly deliberate, some negligence, and none a mistake.

 

[classic33]

Not really similar, in that the scooters have a single, fixed speed limit, not dependent on the limit of the individual road.

I'm sure there will come a point, fairly soon, where speed limits are held accurately enough to be able to program GPS systems to take account of them, but that is not here yet.

Prior to my current car, I used to use my phone in a cradle as a satnav, and the app I used did show supposed speed limits, but was quite often wrong, sometimes just being a few hundred yards off where a limit changed, but other times getting completely the wrong value.

And the car I now have, with built in satnav doesn't even know roads opened since 2015 exist - and I'm not paying several hundred pounds to update it.

That may be the price you'll have to pay to drive.

Years ago I asked on here about cheaper insurance if you were willing to have a box fitted in your car. The answers then was it'd never happen/be commercially viable. It came in via one set of drivers on the road, now it's an accepted part of driving for many.

 

[classic33]

I know that perfectly well. And the same is true of many other situations. But in most other private situations, you only get prosecuted if it DOES lead to harm, rather than becaue it could have done.

I specify private situations there because regulations in the corporate world often mean you can be prosecuted even where no harm has actually occurred.

And note - given the high likelihood of harm when driving negligently, I am certainly NOT suggesting it is wrong that you should be prosecuted for it.

All I am saying is that it is specious to compare those who deliberately and consciously break the law with those who do so by mistake.

I'll ask you the question of what about those drivers who feel they have the right to ignore speed limits?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

One could even say speeding is mostly deliberate, some negligence, and none a mistake.

There are definitions of these different types of human failure: slips, lapses, mistakes, violations.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/humanfactors/topics/humanfail.htm

I was of the opinion that most speeding was adown to deliberate actions, '"violations" before going on a speed awareness course after a "lapse" (I'm quite willing to put my hands up and admit to this being a negligent lapse for those who prefer that terminology)

I was quote shocked to discover on the course that only one other of the ten actually knew what the standard speed limits were for ask the road types, which suggests that "mistakes" might actually be a fairly common reason for speeding (not knowing what the speed limit is).

 

[Alex321]

Forgive me for rearranging your words.

No. That is not acceptable. That wasn't just "rearranging", you completely left out the words relating to the phrase.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I was quote shocked to discover on the course that only one other of the ten actually knew what the standard speed limits were for ask the road types, which suggests that "mistakes" might actually be a fairly common reason for speeding (not knowing what the speed limit is).

If they don't know the rules, why are they driving a car? If they don't know such simple things like speed limits, what what else may they be ignorant of? If someone is knowingly driving a 1 tonne vehicle and doesn't really know what thay are doing, then we are talking incompetence and negligence at the very least, not "mistakes".

I doubt using the defence of "I didn't know it was illegal" would find a sympathetic hearing in a court in any other situation. I have a machine operators licence but if I operated a machine I'm not competent to use and injured someone, I'd be sued. Why does the law allow an apparent "Get out of jail free" card in this case?

And that's before we get to the drivers who feel entitled to drive over the limit, as @classic33 has pointed out.

 

[Alex321]

Not by mistake. By negligence.

That negligence kills people.

So basically, you are telling us you don't understand English. Which surprises me rather.

Unless you think negligence is deliberate, then it is a mistake.

 

[Alex321]

That may be the price you'll have to pay to drive.

I doubt it.

If and when they mandate GPS with speed limit detection, they will probably also mandate low cost updates to those systems, maybe even free.

They will also almost certainly be automatic over-the air updates, rather than having to go into a dealer to get it updated, or buy a physical memory card with the new maps on.

As I say, I'm sure it will come, and I do think 8it a good idea in principle.

I just don't think we are there yet.

 

[Alex321]

I'll ask you the question of what about those drivers who feel they have the right to ignore speed limits?

They are twats, unless part of the emergency services carrying out their duties. Even though not all speed limits are appropriate.