20 mph speed limit.

[Jameshow]

I know that's tongue in cheek but I think road pricing is inevitable. With the increase in the number of electric / hybrid vehicles on the roads there's going to be a drop in revenue from the taxes on petrol / diesel. The government will want to replace this and will probably sell it as " pay per mile " being more equitable.

Hence all the "motorway upgrades"..... now that smart motorways have been kicked into the long grass!

 

[albion]

Pay per mile does sound like a new poll tax.

Yet, if slow city micro vehicles become the half expected norm, then there will be very few big and fast 'more polluting' cars to tax.

 

[the snail]

Mine says "When you see streetlights, assume that the speed limit is 20mph, unless you see signs that say otherwise".

We actually have one place here where they seem to have missed the signs
View attachment 706958

We have the 30 limit sign leaving Aberthin towards Cowbridge, but then no 20 sign before the school, and indeed 30 repeaters still in place.

Then surely the limit is 30? Seems pretty clear to me, even if it's not what the council intended.

Fit all motor vehicles with GPS devices so their speed and location is tracked in real time. The fully automated 'service' will automatically issue fines when a vehicle hits 45 in a 40 zone or 25 in a 20... freeing up traffic cops to better police illegal e-bikes and scooters 🫣

At that point you fit limiters to all cars and make it impossible to speed.

 

[Ian H]

Shoplifters and burglars do not generally do it by accident or mistake.

What? Kill people?

 

[nickyboy]

To give you an idea of how this may play out it's worth looking at other places that have already implemented something similar

Bilbao in Spain has had a 30km/hr limit in the city for several years. It was implemented on safety and air quality grounds. I was talking to a local who was giving us a tour of the area in his car. He said it was just accepted, part of life and everyone has adjusted to the idea of travelling at these speeds. Certainly it was noticeable that the traffic in the city was light and most people seemed to walk, bicycle or take public transport

Perhaps, like the people of Bilbao, we will just get used to it over time and adjust how we get around accordingly

 

[glasgowcyclist]

At that point you fit limiters to all cars and make it impossible to speed.

Yes, please.

If we can geofence and speed limit electric scooters then we can do it with cars.

 

[Alex321]

What? Kill people?

Commit the crime.

Which I am 100% certain you understood.

 

[Alex321]

Then surely the limit is 30? Seems pretty clear to me, even if it's not what the council intended.

When traveling from Aberthin towards Cowbridge, yes.

When traveling the other way, you have come from a 20mph limit (properly signed at the other end of Cowbridge high street), and have not passed any 30 signs, until you see a repeater near the school.

So in one direction, 30 all the way, in the other 20 until you pass that repeater.

Neither being "correct" according to what was intended, as it should be 20 along the road outsdie the school, with only a fairly short 30mpoh section.

At that point you fit limiters to all cars and make it impossible to speed.

That is not going to happen (even the fitting all cars with GPS connected to up to date speed limits) with existing vehicles. It may become a requirement for new vehicles at some point, though even then, I don't think limiters completely preventing all speeding are necessarily safe.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Pay per mile does sound like a new poll tax.

Yet, if slow city micro vehicles become the half expected norm, then there will be very few big and fast 'more polluting' cars to tax.

It depends. You can alter the cost of the mile, so that travelling by car in a rural area where there my be no alternative is relatively inexpensive but a mile in a city costs considerably more.

I recall one railway boss describing the British Road network as "Socialism in action": It's created at taxpayer expense by the state, then offered virtually free to anyone willing to queue long enough; at least road pricing will allow market forces to prevail.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Ireland next.

https://www.thejournal.ie/speed-limits-irish-roads-6167921-Sep2023

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I don't think limiters completely preventing all speeding are necessarily safe

All relative, though; probably far safer than current policy of allowing drivers to choose any speed they like.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Shoplifters and burglars do not generally do it by accident or mistake.

Negligence can certainly be criminal when it causes damage or injury, but apart from driving, it is generally only criminal when actual harm results.

I'm not saying it is wrong to treat driving negligence as a crime even when no harm occurs from the incident, but it is very wrong IMO to compare it as you (and others here) are doing to deliberate criminal actions.

I think this is part of the problem; as long as we don't treat dangerous driving seriously as we would say, drinking and driving, then the consequences will continue to be underestimated. We need to make it clear that going "just a bit fast" isn't acceptable.

 

[Drago]

Although mandatory limiters brought about a sharp reduction in HGV smacks.

No one has yet presented a cogent reason why cars should expect to see a different result were limiters made mandatory.

 

[Alex321]

Yes, please.

If we can geofence and speed limit electric scooters then we can do it with cars.

Not really similar, in that the scooters have a single, fixed speed limit, not dependent on the limit of the individual road.

I'm sure there will come a point, fairly soon, where speed limits are held accurately enough to be able to program GPS systems to take account of them, but that is not here yet.

Prior to my current car, I used to use my phone in a cradle as a satnav, and the app I used did show supposed speed limits, but was quite often wrong, sometimes just being a few hundred yards off where a limit changed, but other times getting completely the wrong value.

And the car I now have, with built in satnav doesn't even know roads opened since 2015 exist - and I'm not paying several hundred pounds to update it.

 

[Alex321]

Although mandatory limiters brought about a sharp reduction in HGV smacks.

No one has yet presented a cogent reason why cars should expect to see a different result were limiters made mandatory.

Those limiters limit them to a speed which was above the speed limit for HGVs on all but motorways.

In principle, I think speed limiters on cars are a good idea, but not when set to operate at exactly the speed limit in all cases. Even if we could be sure that the GPS would actually know the correct limit.