200%totally confused about which bike to buy
- Thread starter Bigtallfatbloke
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
OP
OP
Bigtallfatbloke
New Member
..after all that the blue framesets are 'out of stock' and the manufacturer I am told has no idea when they will be available again.
...Blimey...you'd think it would be easy to give people money these days...same issue with Bianchi....maybe I'll just give up and go swimming after all.
...Blimey...you'd think it would be easy to give people money these days...same issue with Bianchi....maybe I'll just give up and go swimming after all.
OP
OP
Bigtallfatbloke
New Member
Ok...seems like I'm back on the case...
Would you be so kind as to check out these shopping cart I have waiting to go over on shinybikes.com? I wan tto be 100% certain I am not about to make any mistakes here.
In addition I still have the following questions relating to some of the options available on the items above:
1)In the centaur groupset I have selected the chainset ratio as 175mm 50/34. I am a big guy and have powerful legs, I read that big strong blokes need longer cranks, currently mine are shorter...reckon 175's are going to be ok here?
The bottom bracket has an english or italian option...erm...italian right for a campagnolo groupset??
Cassette options are 11/23, 13/26,11/25,12/25,13/29,14/23.
I hav etried to play with sheldons calculator as suggested but to be honest I am lost. Given that I am a big guy and essex is pretty flat what would you choose? I'd like the widest range possible I think.
2) On the inner tubes I selected the 'long valve option'. I hav enever ridden this type of tyres before and am only familier with the standard presta valve on my marathons at the moment. Is 'long valve' the way to go here?
3) The stem and Bars both have options for 26mm or 31.8mm . Am i right in assuming the 31.8mm is what people refer to as 'oversize'? I hav eselected the 31.8mm options...make sense to you?
...I went for the heavier shimano pedals because I am used to them and cannot afford a new pair of road shoes...so i figured I could jump between my new bike and the galaxy if necessary without owning two sets of shoes.
Looking at the list I have aconcern about the saddle choice. Is selle italia a good make? This saddle has a 135mm width which is narrow I reckon for my arse....any better choices I could make in this price range?
Also any clue which mudguards from this list will fit?
http://www.shinybikes.com/bike/mudguards/
MANY thanks for your help and advice here chaps, much appreciated.
Would you be so kind as to check out these shopping cart I have waiting to go over on shinybikes.com? I wan tto be 100% certain I am not about to make any mistakes here.
In addition I still have the following questions relating to some of the options available on the items above:
1)In the centaur groupset I have selected the chainset ratio as 175mm 50/34. I am a big guy and have powerful legs, I read that big strong blokes need longer cranks, currently mine are shorter...reckon 175's are going to be ok here?
The bottom bracket has an english or italian option...erm...italian right for a campagnolo groupset??
Cassette options are 11/23, 13/26,11/25,12/25,13/29,14/23.
I hav etried to play with sheldons calculator as suggested but to be honest I am lost. Given that I am a big guy and essex is pretty flat what would you choose? I'd like the widest range possible I think.
2) On the inner tubes I selected the 'long valve option'. I hav enever ridden this type of tyres before and am only familier with the standard presta valve on my marathons at the moment. Is 'long valve' the way to go here?
3) The stem and Bars both have options for 26mm or 31.8mm . Am i right in assuming the 31.8mm is what people refer to as 'oversize'? I hav eselected the 31.8mm options...make sense to you?
...I went for the heavier shimano pedals because I am used to them and cannot afford a new pair of road shoes...so i figured I could jump between my new bike and the galaxy if necessary without owning two sets of shoes.
Looking at the list I have aconcern about the saddle choice. Is selle italia a good make? This saddle has a 135mm width which is narrow I reckon for my arse....any better choices I could make in this price range?
Also any clue which mudguards from this list will fit?
http://www.shinybikes.com/bike/mudguards/
MANY thanks for your help and advice here chaps, much appreciated.
Bigtallfatbloke said:
Sorry to rain on your parade, but none of the prices you've quoted look like they include VAT so unless you've agreed on a discount subtotal is actually £1537.72. Did you not have a £1300 budget?
Either way, I'd check that you actually need to buy the cable set. I know Shimano groupsets come with all the cable inners and outers supplied, I'd imagine Campag are the same.
As for the rest:
1) I reckon 175's will be fine. I've got 170's on one bike and 175's on the other and to be honest I can't really tell the difference. English and Italian relates to the thread on the BB shell. I'm 99% certain Kinesis frames are English thread. 11/25 seems like the most useable range IMO, especially with a compact chainset up front.
2) Long valves will be fine, much better to be too long than too short, so don't chance it.
3) I'd go for 31.8, though it's not critical. I find them a bit stiffer than standard 26mm.
As for saddles don't assume your big bum means wide sit bones. I got measured for a Specialized Toupe and the 135mm was perfect, and I've got HUGE arse.
I wouldn't like to comment on the mudguards as I've had no experience with them.
Oh, also, I see you are going for the 60cm frame. Are you confident the 110mm stem will give you the position you are after? For me, that would be spot on but you're slightly taller and I have no idea how supple you are or if you prefer stretched out/shorter position. A 120 might also be fine so unless you're very confident I'd be tempted to spend maybe £15 on a cheaper stem to make sure it's right before shelling out £40-£50 on one.
OP
OP
Bigtallfatbloke
New Member
Ok Thanks. VAT...right...krap, forgot about UKGOV.Rsoles.uk....also I re measured my height and I reckon I am nearer 6'3" than 2...hmm...maybe a 63cm is best...dunno...I bet I would be able to ride both ok...the top tube lengths arnt that different.
I cut out some stuff from my list and went with the Veloce ..
Your shopping cart
The items below are currently in your shopping cart. To remove any item click "Delete item". To checkout, please click "Checkout".
Items
Reynolds Solitude Wheels (Clincher)
Rim Depth: 31mm
Spoke Pattern: 20/24
Weight: 1550 grams per set
Spokes
FRONT (Radial) DT Revolution
REAR (Radial, 2x Drive) DT Revolution and DT Competition
Selected options:
type: campag
£255.31 x = £255.31
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinesis Granfondo Frame
Kinesis Granfondo FrameMatching frame material to purpose is equally important as getting the geometry spot on. The new GranFondo frameset is an excellent example of this philosophy. Carbon may be the latest fashion, but alloy tubes can do some things just as well, if not better than the Black wonder material. Scandium is the ideal material for a frame that needs to be responsive and lively, but retain some resilience to cushion the blows of a long distance ride. We have used Easton 'GX2', Flared,Taperwall tubing, the flared section at the headtube helps to avoid lateral flex and give a really direct steering feel, whilst the tapered butting keeps things light and reliable for years of use. Scandium has the 'spring' of steel but with the light weight of advanced alloy.
Selected options:
colour: metalic blue
size: 63cm
£468.08 x = £468.08
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo-CX Folding Tyre
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo-CX Folding Tyre
An evolution of the world famous Open Corsa CX. Used by over 18 professional teams.
- Kevlar SiO2 3D compound with added silica, for reduced rolling resistance and better grip in the wet
- Composite Corespun K 290 TPI casing that uses a blend of Polycotton (cotton and polyester) and Kevlar threads
- The very high thread density of 290 TPI ensures maximum comfort even at high inflation pressures, while the added Kevlar means even better cut resistance
- PRB puncture resistant belting placed under the tread
- Weight: 230g (700x23)
Selected options:
size: 700x23
colour: blue/black
£20.85 x = £41.70
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oval R700 Road Stem
Net shape, 3 axis cold forged for durability and lightweight
43mm wide, cold forged, 4 bolt front cap minimises bar flex and stress
Reversed bolts ease access to the bolts when mounting aero bars, eliminates critical flaw and cleans up the look
Clamping bolts have and extra 10mm of thread making the bar clamp area extremely strong
Bias cut fork clamp and opposing bolts reduce stress on carbon steerer
180° wrap on bar greatly reduces stress on carbon steerer
Finely finished edges to gently cradle light bars and forks
Cro-Mo bolt material
7050-T6
Reversible
125g
Selected options:
diameter: 31.8
length: 120
£37.40 x = £37.40
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oval R700 Handlebars
Superb bar for all around road use
Optimized ergo bump for comfort & control
Seamless, swedged and triple butted for optimum stress dissipation, durability and lightweight
Selected options:
size: 31.8
type: Anatomical
width: 44cm
£48.59 x = £48.59
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SELLE ITALIA C2 GEL FLOW SADDLE 2007
SELLE ITALIA C2 GEL FLOW SADDLE
On the road or on rough ground, the C2 represents an ideal compromise between lightness and high levels of comfort. The silicone gel increases impact absorption power. The diffirentiated-thickness padding is covered with highley breathable leather.
Weight : 240gm
Rail : Manganese tube
Width 135mm / Length 278mm
Use : Road, Off Road , Free Ride
Selected options:
colour: white
£32.98 x = £32.98
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Campagnolo Veloce Black 10sp groupset 2009
The Veloce™ groupset opens the door to Campagnolo® high range groupsets with components designed for long-lasting high performance. There are lots of important new features in 2009: Ultra-Torque™ crankset, Skeleton™ brakes and the new 11-25 sprocket set for compact cranksets.
Selected options:
chainset: 175mm 50/34
bottom bracket: english
front mech: braze on
rear mech: short
cassette: 11/25
£272.33 x = £272.33
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal:
£1156.39
But then again...
..I think the 60cm with a 120mm stem should work...the effective top tube length is 1cm shorter than my galaxy and I feel stretched on that with a 110mm stem...but less so now I have a new 100mm stem fitted.
I cut out some stuff from my list and went with the Veloce ..
Your shopping cart
The items below are currently in your shopping cart. To remove any item click "Delete item". To checkout, please click "Checkout".
Items
Reynolds Solitude Wheels (Clincher)
Rim Depth: 31mm
Spoke Pattern: 20/24
Weight: 1550 grams per set
Spokes
FRONT (Radial) DT Revolution
REAR (Radial, 2x Drive) DT Revolution and DT Competition
Selected options:
type: campag
£255.31 x = £255.31
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinesis Granfondo Frame
Kinesis Granfondo FrameMatching frame material to purpose is equally important as getting the geometry spot on. The new GranFondo frameset is an excellent example of this philosophy. Carbon may be the latest fashion, but alloy tubes can do some things just as well, if not better than the Black wonder material. Scandium is the ideal material for a frame that needs to be responsive and lively, but retain some resilience to cushion the blows of a long distance ride. We have used Easton 'GX2', Flared,Taperwall tubing, the flared section at the headtube helps to avoid lateral flex and give a really direct steering feel, whilst the tapered butting keeps things light and reliable for years of use. Scandium has the 'spring' of steel but with the light weight of advanced alloy.
Selected options:
colour: metalic blue
size: 63cm
£468.08 x = £468.08
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo-CX Folding Tyre
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo-CX Folding Tyre
An evolution of the world famous Open Corsa CX. Used by over 18 professional teams.
- Kevlar SiO2 3D compound with added silica, for reduced rolling resistance and better grip in the wet
- Composite Corespun K 290 TPI casing that uses a blend of Polycotton (cotton and polyester) and Kevlar threads
- The very high thread density of 290 TPI ensures maximum comfort even at high inflation pressures, while the added Kevlar means even better cut resistance
- PRB puncture resistant belting placed under the tread
- Weight: 230g (700x23)
Selected options:
size: 700x23
colour: blue/black
£20.85 x = £41.70
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oval R700 Road Stem
Net shape, 3 axis cold forged for durability and lightweight
43mm wide, cold forged, 4 bolt front cap minimises bar flex and stress
Reversed bolts ease access to the bolts when mounting aero bars, eliminates critical flaw and cleans up the look
Clamping bolts have and extra 10mm of thread making the bar clamp area extremely strong
Bias cut fork clamp and opposing bolts reduce stress on carbon steerer
180° wrap on bar greatly reduces stress on carbon steerer
Finely finished edges to gently cradle light bars and forks
Cro-Mo bolt material
7050-T6
Reversible
125g
Selected options:
diameter: 31.8
length: 120
£37.40 x = £37.40
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oval R700 Handlebars
Superb bar for all around road use
Optimized ergo bump for comfort & control
Seamless, swedged and triple butted for optimum stress dissipation, durability and lightweight
Selected options:
size: 31.8
type: Anatomical
width: 44cm
£48.59 x = £48.59
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SELLE ITALIA C2 GEL FLOW SADDLE 2007
SELLE ITALIA C2 GEL FLOW SADDLE
On the road or on rough ground, the C2 represents an ideal compromise between lightness and high levels of comfort. The silicone gel increases impact absorption power. The diffirentiated-thickness padding is covered with highley breathable leather.
Weight : 240gm
Rail : Manganese tube
Width 135mm / Length 278mm
Use : Road, Off Road , Free Ride
Selected options:
colour: white
£32.98 x = £32.98
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Campagnolo Veloce Black 10sp groupset 2009
The Veloce™ groupset opens the door to Campagnolo® high range groupsets with components designed for long-lasting high performance. There are lots of important new features in 2009: Ultra-Torque™ crankset, Skeleton™ brakes and the new 11-25 sprocket set for compact cranksets.
Selected options:
chainset: 175mm 50/34
bottom bracket: english
front mech: braze on
rear mech: short
cassette: 11/25
£272.33 x = £272.33
Delete item
Edit options
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal:
£1156.39
But then again...
..I think the 60cm with a 120mm stem should work...the effective top tube length is 1cm shorter than my galaxy and I feel stretched on that with a 110mm stem...but less so now I have a new 100mm stem fitted.
Aperitif
Meme bar
- Location
- ...I don't have much idea - really.
I'm a bit worried bigbloke -you operate best under stress...
(on this forum)Sounds good - waiting for the pics now!
OP
OP
Bigtallfatbloke
New Member
This is the grand fondo frame geometry chart. I am confused by the two left hand colums. C>T & C>C what do these mean? I thought the seat tune was measured from the centre of the BB to the seat post clamp at the top of the tube?
I just measured my Galaxy and it has these measurments:
BB>Seat clamp 64cm
Top tube centre to centre 58.5cm
Bottom tube 64cm
Rear stay 56cm
Bottom stay 44cm
Front tube (the bit the bar tube goes into) 25cm, but including the risers the total length is 34cm
Stem 10cm
Seat post height (showing) 14cm
Clearance between top tube and my crotch 10cm
...I am still convinced this frame is to big..ok it fits and I have ridden a long way on it but I reckon I would also get a comfy fit with a smaller frame, increased seat post extension ans longer stem. So I am thinking th e60cm frame on my new bike will be better. BUT...
I dont get the way these to manufacturers measure the frame...is it on the same basis?? i'e if I get a Kineses 60cm is that comparable to the Dawes from measurements (based on table above) or is it actually smaller..like a 55 or something??
Kinesis reckon a 63cm frame for me...but you know I am still thinking 60cm as I know how BIG my galaxy feels under me...
then I read this:
http://www.billbostoncycles.com/top_tube_height.htm
One inch top tube clearance seems tiny to me! Is this a commonly held view? On thta basis then it would appear that my 64cm galaxy is actually to small for me!!! I cant believe that.
The orbea onix geometry is here:
Bigtallfatbloke said:
Different manufacturers state their sizes in different ways. Some do centre to centre, others centre to top. Kinesis obviously do centre to top but have given the C/C size for comparison. Todays' modern bikes with sloping top tubes make this measurement pretty much reduntant anyway. Single most important measurement on a bike IMO is effective top tube length.
Bigtallfatbloke said:
The 60cm Kinesis looks very similar in size to your Galaxy with its 58.5mm top tube and a 58.2mm horitontal on the Kinesis. If you feel your galaxy is a bit big then Kinesis' suggestion of a 63 is certainly going to be much. Is it just the reach to the bars on your Galaxy that makes it feel large or could it be the horitontal top tube? I always find horitontal frames a bit weird feeling, the top tube always feels too close making the bike feel much larger than it actually is. The sloping top tube of the Kinesis, (or any other similarly sized sloping geometry frame) might not feel so big.
Going by your measurements above, the 60 sounds like your best bet. The size down is almost certainly too small for a 6'3 bloke and 17.5cm headtube means a comfortable bar height will be almost impossible given that your Galaxy has a 25cm one.
Bigtallfatbloke said:
Both the Kinesis and Orbea have sloping top tubes so unless you buy a frame much too large standover clearance isn't going to be an issue. Buying a bike using the 'one inch top tube clearance' measurement is another of those sizing mantras that 15-20 years ago probably had some use, but has no place today in sizing a modern bike.
OP
OP
Bigtallfatbloke
New Member
good ..thanks.
Mostly it's the height of th etop tube and the huge looking headtube.
I have 10cm bollock clearance over the top tube, so that is more than the 1" rool I mentioned above, but it just looks so dam huge! The reach is better now with a 10cm stem fitted. So given what you say about the sloping top tube on the kinesis perhps th e63 wouldnt seem so big?
...hmm...crunch time bTFB...watchya gonna do...
...so if i got the 60cm you reckon the bar height would be cool for me given the head tube size?
Mostly it's the height of th etop tube and the huge looking headtube.
I have 10cm bollock clearance over the top tube, so that is more than the 1" rool I mentioned above, but it just looks so dam huge! The reach is better now with a 10cm stem fitted. So given what you say about the sloping top tube on the kinesis perhps th e63 wouldnt seem so big?
...hmm...crunch time bTFB...watchya gonna do...
...so if i got the 60cm you reckon the bar height would be cool for me given the head tube size?
I think reach is important for comfort, so if you are happy with the 58.5 top tube with 10cm stem of your galaxy, that's what you should be aiming to match as close as possible. Then again, maybe other positions would be just as comfortable yet more efficient. Have you thought about doing a proper fitting session. Might be a bit of money out of your budget, but at least you'll know for sure what you're buying is going to be right.
I wish I could give you a definitive answer, I spent weeks, if not months, mulling over dimensions of every bike I've bought in the past 5 years. If you're like me no matter what one you get you'll always wonder if the smaller/larger would have been a better fit, but I think you'd get away with either the 60 or 63 with the relevant stem.
Bigtallfatbloke said:
I wish I could give you a definitive answer, I spent weeks, if not months, mulling over dimensions of every bike I've bought in the past 5 years. If you're like me no matter what one you get you'll always wonder if the smaller/larger would have been a better fit, but I think you'd get away with either the 60 or 63 with the relevant stem.
OP
OP
Bigtallfatbloke
New Member
..can you tell me who/where? Also they need to have a 60 & 63 kineses framed bike for me to sit on...I don't know of anybody who has.
I reckin the 60 will offer a more racy position and the 63 a more sitty up position...I have sitty up already on th egalaxy, so i reckon I am going to take a punt on the 60 and build up the frame with campy veloce etc....
...I jus tspoke to another LBS and when I told him I was interested in a Kineses (this guy is one of their dealers) he said he's never heard of them, then when I told him I had a 86cm inside leg and thought a 60cm might be what i needed he said that he didnt need that infor mation for a mountain bike,,, then when he was informed again that this was for a road bike he said he had a 23 " rayleigh bike in I could try...fine I thought...'is that a 60cm?' I said...'dunno mate I only do inches'...'ok...well I work in cm's'...'well I'm the bloodybike dealer and I know what i am talking about!!"...Muppet.
Bigtallfatbloke said:
Cyclefit in Covent Garden have a good reputation but are expensive - something like £125 I believe.
The Bikefitting website lets you look up dealers who use their bikefitting system.
When you go through a bikefitting exercise you actually sit on a special rig which is used to determine the exact measurements and riding position you need. You will then come away with a generic set of measurements you should be able to use to size any bike.
