2015 Rugby World Cup **Potential spoilers**

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

subaqua

What’s the point
Location
Leytonstone
No Chris Ashton swallow dive though, so not all bad.
worth thinking about just for that !

I am with the Grumpmeister on the catchpass thing. when I was playing at schoolboy ;level it was always about running round warming up throwing the ball to each other without warning until after you had released. made the catcher think . this was when Wales were in the doldrums in the 80s

All 3 of my PE masters did this. Wonder when it stopped in the UK .
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
So, in the absence of any evidence of anything being thrown at Joubert (which had been forwarded as a reason for him running from the pitch) it is now being suggested he ran away due to the "anger inside Twickenham" i.e. he's a coward. Which is pretty much what I, and 1000s of others, thought at the time. And his actions since confirm this.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/scotland-world-cup-blunder-ref-6670048
Are you saying his actions since confirm that he ran away due to the "anger inside Twickenham"?
or
Are you saying his actions since confirm he is a coward?

Cos if Joubert is a coward physically or mentally, then he could not have made it onto the elite panel and I'm Gregori I Tsar of All the Russias.

I think you should read what Brian Moore has said. And what Campo has said. Amongst other. And read and reflect on this.
 

Fubar

Legendary Member
In fact there was a link last night from Lewis Moody who said that Scotland should wonder why they blew the linout rather than blaming the ref for losing. Which is what I said. Somewhere.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
In fact there was a link last night from Lewis Moody who said that Scotland should wonder why they blew the linout rather than blaming the ref for losing. Which is what I said. Somewhere.
Which is kind of similar to what I said about England. The issue with England wasn't kicking for the corner which I still believe was the right thing to do, it was not being prepared for Wales to drive the maul sideways rather than backwards.
 
Which is kind of similar to what I said about England. The issue with England wasn't kicking for the corner which I still believe was the right thing to do, it was not being prepared for Wales to drive the maul sideways rather than backwards.
All sound comments - but we're only having a chat in the café right...a sort of brainstorming (where's my brain?). That said, there is a difference between any player's decision making and the referee's decision making. That's why the ref has assistants / reviews etc. I don't think anyone is making light of a difficult job either, but it was just in that particular match, the TMO was conspicuous and then not. The timings of the incidents are all critical - we know all that. And, that's why this team of referees are on the ELite Panel - so they can be, well - elite.(I'm sure you would have preferred Twickenham to Copenhagen, Greg. ^_^ )
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
All sound comments - but we're only having a chat in the café right...a sort of brainstorming (where's my brain?). That said, there is a difference between any player's decision making and the referee's decision making. That's why the ref has assistants / reviews etc. I don't think anyone is making light of a difficult job either, but it was just in that particular match, the TMO was conspicuous and then not. The timings of the incidents are all critical - we know all that. And, that's why this team of referees are on the ELite Panel - so they can be, well - elite.(I'm sure you would have preferred Twickenham to Copenhagen, Greg. ^_^ )
Lols. I struggled to cope in Sussex Div One and the pace of the game in the division above, where I only reffed once, and then only by accident, was too much for my meagre skills.

not sure I like the way the IRB have handled it mind.
 
OP
OP
Wafer

Wafer

Veteran
not sure I like the way the IRB have handled it mind.

Indeed, saying he got the decision wrong but not offering a way for him to have gotten the right one, other than see everything in real time when it happened. Something basically no one managed. All they needed to do was acknowledge the incorrect decision but say it was clearly very hard to spot and with TMO not allowed for that situation they would review it's use for the future.
As it is they've just thrown him under a bus suggesting it was an error he shouldn't of made.
 
OK For fun, let's think back to that very first evening, when Jaco and the Veldsman were playing video games for the match between England (when they were playing rugby) and Fiji. Lots of relevant comments, and Greg and Wafer's comments seem apt. After the first game the bells should have been ringing loud and clear and the deficiencies ironed out, the benefits empowered.


daniel_schofield_6_3096975j.jpg
By Daniel Schofield, Twickenham

10:23PM BST 18 Sep 2015

comments.gif
37 Comments


There was a wild animal on the prowl last night at Twickenham. Not John “The Bull” Hayes, one of the 20 legends on display before kick off, but a far more dangerous beast – a Television Match Official with the need to justify his existence.

That’s the problem with technology – the supposed panacea for all football’s woes – once you give someone the access to a television screen and the power to intervene just watch wait for the God complex to develop.

• England vs Fiji, Rugby World Cup - as it happened

Shaun Veldsman, for it was he, was the man with his thumb on the button and boy did he abuse it.

All flow and momentum was sucked from the first half with four referrals going upstairs, only one with any justification. Then came the ditheringand the eternal replays.

TMO2_3445753b.jpg

England fans await the TMO's verdict

By the letter of the law, correct decisions were reached but at the price of ruining the first 40 minutes as spectacle. The technology that is supposed to benefit the game, not wreck it. All the electricity and the excitement of the opening ceremony was sucked out of the stadium. You can imagine a fair few of 450 million estimated audience who had tuned in for the match had turned off; some first-time viewers are likely to never return.

The half-time whistle eventually blew at 20.53. If every game follows this pattern then World Rugby may have to reschedule the final for around Christmas time. People pay good money and tune in from their sofas to watch a rugby match rather than CSI. Rob rugby of its flow and it becomes half the spectacle.

• Twitter rages as the TMO hampers Rugby World Cup opener

Remember the purpose of the TMO is to only use when the referee has a serious doubt or has missed a serious incident. Note the word serious. Instead we were treated to two early examples of the TMO checking incidents so trivial in the grand scheme of things that it is a wonder that he did not bring attention to a few socks that had not been pulled up.

The first incident occurred when a pair of Fijian tacklers lifted Jonny May up by one leg. Although he was vertical at one point, May was gently lowered him to the floor. No harm was done and Jaco Peyper, the South African referee, had a perfect view of the incident. He saw nothing wrong in it.

tmo_new_3445668b.jpg

South African referee Jaco Peyper refers to the TMO

But then the replay went up on the big screen and of course the crowd bayed for blood. Like a Roman Emperor at the colosseum, Veldsman felt that he had to satisfy the mob and signalled the thumbs down. The only saving grace was that he did not give award a yellow card.

The second incident occurred soon after as Api Ratuniyarawa, the Fiji lock, flew into the ruck with minimal use of his arms on Robshaw. Again Peyper had a view of the incident but chose not to act until the voice in his ear piped up. A slew of replays followed, the crowd groaning with boredom on each one.

World Rugby have recently urged officials to clampdown on such behaviour, but if every such clearout was penalised then rucks would cease to exist. As much as those serious cases should be penalised, physicality is an essential part of rugby’s fabric. Are these the type of incidents that the TMO was designed to police? Hardly.

Its main purpose was to check if a try had been scored, although it again took the intervention of the crowd to alert the officials to the fact that Niko Matawalu had failed to ground the ball after his sensational individual score. One replay told everyone in the stadium that. Instead, Veldsman opted for ten all showing exactly the same thing.

tmo_twitter_3445662b.jpg

The TMO robs the official on the ground of the confidence to make decisions

Even if the right decision was arrived at, it is highly unsatisfactory that the television replays within the ground are having such an effect on the outcome of the game. If that had been Ben Youngs scoring that try would the same verdict been delivered?

The other invidious effect of the TMO is that it robs the official on the ground in all confidence of making decisions on their own volition. Moments after Matawalu’s try was disallowed, Ben Volavola kicked across field to Nemani Nadolo who rose high above Anthony Watson to claim and ground the ball. The assistant referee was stood no more than centimetres away from the incident but no his eyesight could not be trusted and upstairs it went. Needlessly. Pointlessly. Infuriatingly.

In the second half, Tom Wood was picked up for grabbing Leone Nakarawa around the neck. If the referee had seen it, he would have awarded a penalty. He didn’t but it is hardly the type of incident that needs bringing to his attention.

Then came Billy Vunipola’s try. TMO assistance in this case was perfectly justified if Peyper did not have a clear view. And yet a few phases earlier, Jonny May had knocked on so should it have been disallowed? How far back do you go to ensure nothing is missed?

Therein lies the problem. Rugby is not a perfect game. Players bend the rules all the time, particularly in the dark recesses of the breakdown. You will never witness a game where a referee gets every decision spot on. So accept that, move on and stop interfering.


TMO flashpoints
13 Jonny May goes on a run and has his leg lifted by Dom Waqaniburotu. The England wing is vertical at one point but Akapusi Qera ensures his landing is a soft one. TMO awards a penalty.

19 Waqaniburotu again leads with the shoulder clearing out Chris Robshaw from the ruck. TMO awards a penalty.

27 Jaco Peyper awards a try to Niko Matawalu, but replays show the scrum half failed to ground the ball so he changes his mind. Try disallowed.

28 Peyper again goes upstairs when Nemani Nadolo claims a high ball above Anthony Watson and grounds the ball despite the presence of an assistant referee just centimetres away. Try awarded.

52 Tom Wood grabs Leone Nakarawa around the neck in attempting to clear him from a maul. Penalty awarded against England..

80 Billy Vunipola is pushed over amid a pile of bodies. Peyper is on the scene but has no clear view so he justifiably goes upstairs. However, a Jonny May knock-on in the build up is missed. Try awarded.

Ah...rugby! :rolleyes::smile::cheers:
 
Steve Hansen's words in advance of Saturday's showdown:
It will help if the French referee Jérôme Garcès can provide an authoritative performance but Hansen, either way, will not be criticising the official in public. “I’ve always said it’s a really tough game to referee at the moment and we’ve got to find ways of making it simpler for them,” he said, expressing his sympathy for South Africa’s beleaguered Craig Joubert. “I don’t think it’s Craig that’s the problem but the system. World Rugby has to fix that problem. If he could have used the technology then we’d have got a different decision. End of story.”

Also, anyone in London who fancies a run our for a couple of miles should turn up with plimsolls at 07.30 Outside the National Gallery (Then you can go to The Harp afterwards for a quick one, and several slow ones!) The Admiralty - on the South Side of Trafalgar Square has TVs and well kept Fullers beer for the match...should your dreams turn into reality.
CR7b_lGVAAEIFU4.jpg
 
Australia to beat New Zealand...in the 3rd place play-off, while South Africa run too hard for Argentina on 31st October perhaps. :smile: Well, why not? All my previous predictions are 'half-bottomed'...why change the habit of a lifetime?
It will be interesting to watch and hear the games develop this weekend - particularly in light of 'Piddlegate' - and hopefully, all the people on the pitch will survive intact for the next week of action! Kriel and De Allende for the South Africans will make New Zealand think a bit I hope, and Duane's Gang will stifle Richie McCaw & Co, their counterparts.
It'll be murky by the time the Argentina v Australia game commences on Sunday, so let's hope Diego Maradona has good cause to cheer. All four teams have won a third place tournament. Only three have won the Cup. Will this change? :smile:
 

Levo-Lon

Guru
Can one of you knowledgable types clear this up...

could the Ref of the Scotland Australia game have called a TMO on that decision..
 

Levo-Lon

Guru
Ok google seems to have answered this... got very angry in my local today..the scientists was spot on..the welsh truck driver was very out of order and fooking wrong..Ta

fooked up a nice game of crib...
 
Top Bottom