A dual carriageway question for you ...

[ColinJ]

This isn't really a cycling question but this seems like a good sub-forum to ask in. I do not drive and this is a question about driving so I would be interested to hear the opinions of the drivers among you. I'll wait until I have a number of replies before explaining why I am asking.

I'll present you with 2 options and I would appreciate it if you would tell me which you think is correct/legal.

It is about crossing a dual carriageway from a side road, and the effect that your decision has on drivers wanting to turn right from the far carriageway to exit down the side road. (I checked the highway code and am satisfied that the 3rd option is not needed - that is to wait until it is clear to cross the near carriageway and immediately turn right onto the far carriageway. In this particular case there is plenty of room to wait in a normal-sized car between the 2 carriageways.)

Take a look at the 2 pictures below. Would you exit the side road taking the line shown in picture 'A' or the one shown in picture 'B'? (I have given an indication of what you would therefore expect a right-turning driver coming along the far carriageway to do.) Please explain your reasoning.

Thanks!

PS Note the faint right-pointing arrow painted on the road and say what you think that it is trying to convey.

 

[bianchi1]

A is correct. Cars turning right into the minor road have right of way over cars coming out of the minor road turning right. It can be a bit of a pain if you are the car that is trying to join the main carriageway as not only do you have to wait for a gap in the flowing traffic, but also a gap in the queuing traffic waiting to to drive onto the minor road. We have a junction exactly like it by us (in the pic) so its nothing out of the ordinary, but its amazing how many people don't know how to use it correctly. The county council are looking to change ours to a roundabout or traffic lights. Hopefully its a roundabout as traffic lights would mean the loss of a good ctt 10 mile time trial course and several club tt courses.

 

[ColinJ]

Thanks. Yes, I think it makes sense to wait if cars are already queuing up to exit the dual carriageway.

Let's assume that no cars are queuing. You are clear to leave the minor road but have to wait to turn right when halfway across. Do you proceed as in A or in B? (I am trying to establish the correct position of your car when waiting.)

 

[ADarkDraconis]

I instantly thought of B because that is how we would configure it to remain on the right near the curb, but then I remembered that you folks drive on the other side (US here) and so A then shows the proper setup so that you are on the left of the drivers that may be coming on. So my final answer is A.

Waiting is in the same position regardless of whether or not a car is approaching, because the idea is that you should be in the proper place should a car come up. Just like we would wait in a turning lane at a light even if no other vehicles are on the road, it is the correct place to be for the maneuver you are about to do.

 

[Slick]

Tricky. A is most probably correct, especially if traffic is flowing but it would block the progress of others during rush hour. B would let one vehicle sit waiting to turn right without blocking anyone.

Poor design in this day and age.

 

[bpsmith]

A, without question. It’s annoying for those waiting to join the carriageway from the side road, but that just the same as where you have a mini roundabout with the road to your right being the busier route.

 

[Mo1959]

A for me too. Treat it like waiting to turn right out of a junction I would say.

 

[Dave 123]

A would be the safest in respect of visibility. To join the new road approaching at 90° would indeed be slower, but would give better visibility down the carriageway.

Picture B leaves a blind spot.

The road known as the Hoylake road in the Wirral (don't know the number @Crackle ) has a particularly dodgy example of this, though the road is dualled. The turn from Ledsham Road is 90° across fast moving, unhindered traffic to a central area, then pull out into 2 lanes of moving traffic. I think it may be set up/ used in the option B style. It has seen its fair share of accidents due to blind spots and fast traffic.

 

[mustang1]

I think I'd go with B.

Another dumb British junction. If I knew this junction well and it was busy, I wouldn't even make a right turn (from the side road). I would rather turn left, go up the road and see what options I had to U-turn.

If I was a driver approaching from the main road wanting to turn right and there was already a car waiting at the intersection to turn right from the side road, I would leave some distance so the poor fellow would have some visibility of traffic lest he gets in front of a high speed approaching car.

 

[mustang1]

A is correct. Cars turning right into the minor road have right of way over cars coming out of the minor road turning right. It can be a bit of a pain if you are the car that is trying to join the main carriageway as not only do you have to wait for a gap in the flowing traffic, but also a gap in the queuing traffic waiting to to drive onto the minor road. We have a junction exactly like it by us (in the pic) so its nothing out of the ordinary, but its amazing how many people don't know how to use it correctly. The county council are looking to change ours to a roundabout or traffic lights. Hopefully its a roundabout as traffic lights would mean the loss of a good ctt 10 mile time trial course and several club tt courses.

If they turn it into a porter large roundabout then that's fine. But if they make it one of those mini roundabouts, I find the drivers on the "main road" just carry on and never give way to people coming from the side road. The drivers on the main road think they have right of way but the Give Way lines say otherwise.

In this scenario, traffic lights (with camera enforcement) might be better? (I know it screws with the TT )

 

[mustang1]

Thanks. Yes, I think it makes sense to wait if cars are already queuing up to exit the dual carriageway.

Let's assume that no cars are queuing. You are clear to leave the minor road but have to wait to turn right when halfway across. Do you proceed as in A or in B? (I am trying to establish the correct position of your car when waiting.)

I would still go with B.

 

[Brandane]

PS Note the faint right-pointing arrow painted on the road and say what you think that it is trying to convey.

It is a badly positioned sign to indicate that the lane is for right turning traffic only, just in case the grassy central reservation didn't make it obvious to your average dopey British driver.
As for turning right from the minor road onto the main road, scenario A is correct. These junctions are especially fun when driving an artic with 40' trailer!

 

[Pale Rider]

A for me.

Realistically, other traffic at the junction would often force you into B - or a long wait and possibly abuse for dithering from the driver behind you.

 

[raleighnut]

A here too but that looks a 'nasty' junction so I'd try to avoid it.

 

[Heltor Chasca]

I’ve chosen B. This system works in Midsomer Norton, where you drive off the one way high street and turn right into Lidl or Argos. Cars are instructed with paint markings to drive on the right. When you leave the car park you drive on the right and out onto the one way high street again. I guess you could apply a SIMILAR train of thought. It’s unusual but it seems to work.

Either way the example in the OP is just another example of our below average infrastructure.