A dual carriageway question for you ...
- Thread starter ColinJ
- Start date
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Brandane
Legendary Member
- Location
- Costa Clyde
Problems maybe arise depending on what OTHER drivers are doing. For example - although most of us are agreeing that scenario "A" is the way to go, that assumes that the traffic on the DC turning right are in the proper position for doing so (which would block off option B anyway). However there might be someone intending to turn right off the DC who is aware of a queue behind him/her, then sees someone trying to turn right OUT of the minor road, so hangs back to create a gap for them. In that case "B" would be the safer option for someone in your niece's position. There's no real right or wrong unfortunately - each manoeuvre has to be considered on it's own merit.
Edit... Same as route B would be the proper course to take in the absence of any other traffic.
I think I'd write to the driving school, explain what happened (naming the two instructors, neutrally and without criticism), and ask those very questions. And if I did not get a satisfactory response, I might write to whatever government department is responsible (with copies of all correspondence with the driving school).
Actually, while I was typing that, I just remembered that a friend of mine is an ex driving instructor instructor (he taught driving instructors), so I'll ask him for his thoughts when I see him.
andrew_s
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucester
[QUOTE 5124063, member: 9609"]I wasn't meaning some sort of mad U-Turn on a busy dual - LOL - that would be even more dangerous than trying to squeeze across. I was thinking more of finding a flyover or some other suitable turning point. Some of these mini dual sections on single carriageway trunk roads can be completely mental with people trying to break the sound barrier.[/QUOTE]
I understood your point in fairness. Perhaps my response didn’t convey that, sorry.
I am thinking about a couple of longish roads locally, similar to the picture posted above, where they don’t have flyovers and they have systematically removed the crossing points subtly over time.
I understood your point in fairness. Perhaps my response didn’t convey that, sorry.
I am thinking about a couple of longish roads locally, similar to the picture posted above, where they don’t have flyovers and they have systematically removed the crossing points subtly over time.
Levo-Lon
Guru
Sometimes A or B choice wont help.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...6A46C0F4BE2F494248616A46C0F4BE2F494&FORM=VIRE
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...6A46C0F4BE2F494248616A46C0F4BE2F494&FORM=VIRE
Slick
Guru
Okay, I'll bite, what's that got to do with a young girl failing a driving exam?
I've shown my driving instructor friend the photos of the junction and have asked him, and he has a number of thoughts.
He reckons that if there is any vehicle approaching on the right-turning lane on the major road, the driver on the minor road should wait until that vehicle has cleared the junction before progressing. At that point, with no vehicle turning right off the major road, they should take route B.
The question of offside-to-offside passing should not arise in a T-junction situation, as the driver coming from the minor road should simply not be in the junction if there is a vehicle approaching in the turning lane on the major road. He says the offside-to-offside passing thing is applicable to crossroads where vehicles from opposite directions are turning right from the major road onto minor roads, and not to situations like this.
He also commented that just positioning a vehicle incorrectly at that junction should only have been a minor, unless it was done dangerously - for example, if there was another vehicle in the junction at the time. To resolve that, he'd need to be sure whether the junction was clear when the driver approached it, or whether there was a vehicle approaching in the right-turning lane of the major road - if the latter, the correct procedure is to stop in the minor road and not enter the junction until that vehicle has completed the turn,
If there were no vehicles turning right from the major road, and if the learner was failed once for adopting position A and once for adopting position B, then he reckons she has the right to appeal. A successful appeal would not overturn a test result, and the most you could get from it is a free retest. He's not sure who to make the appeal to now, but the driving instructor should know.
He also reckons that the driving instructor has the right to approach the test centre and query the apparently contradictory fail reasons - and that instructors actually have the right to sit in the car for the debriefing and to question the examiner on their reasons for failing.
My friend also said that even when trying to follow the rules to the letter, there will often still be some subjective judgment required when it comes to the best way to approach a junction - but that a test centre should be consistent, and if the DVLA (or whoever it is) sees appeals due to inconsistencies, they can send someone in to try to find out what's wrong.
His final caution was in choosing a different test centre, as that will introduce a whole set of new roads and junctions with which the learner is not familiar - and he's seen numerous people going on to fail badly because of that.
Anyway, that's a bit long-winded, but I wanted to try to capture my friend's words as precisely as I understood him. I hope it's some help.
OP
OP
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
Thank you, Alan - that's very helpful!
I thought it sounded more like a 'minor' rather than a 'major', if there was actually any fault at all. What I don't know is if there were other vehicles involved coming from opposite left. I have texted my sister to ask for more details. I could see there being potential consequences to attempt the turn onto the dual carriageway if there was a possibility of conflict with a motorist leaving at the junction.
I also thought that my niece should stick to her local centre if possible because she is very familiar with the local roads.
He's just added that, assuming the right turn lane from the major road was clear, adopting position A would actually block vehicles subsequently entering it, whereas B would let them pass and turn right into the minor road.
keithmac
Guru
That was my thinking as well.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
That irritates me a bit. She'll be allowed to drive on any roads after passing the test, so familiarity shouldn't be required. If it helps, then the system is defective!
OP
OP
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
You are not as irritated as my family are!
Of course it should not be necessary to memorise routes and practice individual junctions.
My sister is a very good driver with over 40 years experience and has been driven all over the place by my niece and says that she is an excellent driver. The examiners clearly largely agree on that, only handing out 2 'minors' in the 2 tests. I think I had given a wee hint that we think that the system IS defective though when 2 officials from the same centre can't agree on a simple question of road positioning, contradict each other, and both give 'majors' for it.
My niece told me at the weekend that she was told that the majors were just for incorrect positioning on the road, not for failing to give way/pulling out unsafely/(whatever). I'm still waiting to get a reply about whether any other vehicles were nearby at the time that the majors were handed out. If there were no other vehicles involved then I really can't see what the problem was. If there were other vehicles and she made any significant mistakes, why didn't the examiners tell her about them instead?
