A review of PedalCell, an impressive new rim dynamo

[Baldy]

We do have a UK dealer here.

Thanks for this, still quite expensive but I'll think about it.

 

[IaninSheffield]

But to see an item's price quoted, more than once, at $299 - instead of the almost $450 which is the actual cost in the UK (around £215 compared to £325), ie more than half as much again - is a bit too much for me to accept without comment.

It is important to comment, especially to help potential purchasers who might not have fully thought things through. However, I'd also add that on an international forum (albeit it one with a UK bias), surely that calculation is incumbent on the potential purchaser, rather than the OP or manufacturer? If they were tempted by the device, forum members in the EU, Africa, Asia, Oceania etc would factor the additional costs into their calculations wouldn't they?

I didn't get the impression at any stage that Ray (the OP) or Pedalcell were being disingenuous, given that they're both based in the US. I assume they were just quoting the cost based on their local currency, in the same way that when selling through 'For Sale and Auction', most folks on here will quote in £.

 

[neil_merseyside]

We get close to more orders from the UK than the USA, which should tell you something

That you sold 1 in the USA (the O.P. to the thread) and 1 in the uk and you might sell another?
That's close to more isn't it

 

[rogerzilla]

"Efficiency: PedalCell has 2-3X less drag per watt than most other dynamos, meaning that for a given amount of power, there is 2-3X less drag"

So if a decent hub is 60% efficient, PedalCell is 80-87% efficient?

 

[PedalCell]

"Efficiency: PedalCell has 2-3X less drag per watt than most other dynamos, meaning that for a given amount of power, there is 2-3X less drag"

We quote the "up to 2X more efficient" numbers as end-to-end (hub + USB charger). The hub efficiency numbers that are quoted by OEMs, such as that 60% #, do not account for a loss in USB charging. We have a graph on our site that shows some common comparisons that were from this testing. Most hubs hover in the 30-50% range for USB charging. PedalCell peaks at 70%+.

That you sold 1 in the USA (the O.P. to the thread) and 1 in the uk and you might sell another?
That's close to more isn't it

Lol, definitely not. Ray was provided a review unit for his site so that would be 0 and 0 in your comparasion

In all seriousness, we're about to be out of stock (for the 3rd time this season) in the coming week. Our biggest issue at the moment is making enough!

 

[KnittyNorah]

It is important to comment, especially to help potential purchasers who might not have fully thought things through. However, I'd also add that on an international forum (albeit it one with a UK bias), surely that calculation is incumbent on the potential purchaser, rather than the OP or manufacturer?

Everything (or almost everything!) on't'interwebz is international, or runs the risk of being so, but what I found a little disingenous, to be honest, was the repeated claim of the $299 price, when the OP was surely aware that their UK distributor did not have it available at anything like that price (which is fair enough, and right and proper, given their investment of time, trouble, money and risk in the importation process alone). It's probably no more expensive - it might even be a few ££ cheaper - and certainly a lot less hassle and risk, to buy from the importer than directly!

 

[neil_merseyside]

Lol, definitely not. Ray was provided a review unit for his site so that would be 0 and 0 in your comparasion
In all seriousness, we're about to be out of stock (for the 3rd time this season) in the coming week. Our biggest issue at the moment is making enough!

I never clicked Ray's link to realise you'd effectively bought the review by supplying a freebie! I've heard this happens with influencers (whatever they are) but to see it is rather distasteful to me. What a low rent way to get an advert.
You really need to send one to Conrad and then we'll have an idea if it's actually any good.

 

[neil_merseyside]

Rather worrying that Ray mounted the thing behind the front forks so it could stop the front wheel dead if it deflected inwards, always mount stuff in front of the fork so stuff deflects out out not inwards [1], I know pannier racks leave no room for proper mounting but you really don't want to be chewing tarmac with an artic/18 wheeler up your chuff/ass.
Tapered tubes and thus safe mounting to them are a risk, a hub dynamo with even a tiny chance of a bearing failure causing a full seize seems so much safer [2]

[1] I do see lots of bikes (roadies and full on tourers) with a speedo sender behind the fork, though these are more benign as the tend to erm lets say 'disassemble' without any great issue, except for the odd spoke. [3]
[2] Anyone ever had a dyno hub stop dead and cause an endo?
[3] How many have just been off to check?

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Thanks for engaging on this thread. For the sake of transparency I reported your first posts.
I do hope that since you are using this site in a commercial way that you have paid the (ironic in this case) advertising removal subscription

Thanks for clarifying. Slippage is a non-issue as explained by our user reviews. We've been proven in a multitude of off-road settings.

Some questions:
How long is the product in existence?
How many of those reviews paid for the product?

Our new tech isn't just electronics and wouldn't offer many advantages to a hub. ......
PedalCell is a bottom-up design for USB charging in every part of the system (deep integration between our electronics, software, and custom generator) which is why we have higher power output and better drag efficiency.

Frankly, the thought of a device like yours strapped to my front fork scares the bejaysus out of me.
It also seems that a key component in your offering is some smart communications technology.
If you could marry that with a hub I would be interested.

Also FYI our clamp doesn't slip when installed properly onroad offroad etc. All reviews back this claim up. And IF someone didn't follow our directions and it did slip, the Generator puck hits the spokes first and will rotate around them. We tested this fail-safe. We have yet to have anyone crash because of a clamp failure.

I'm starting to be turned off here.

Your claim is highly dependent on the quantity of units out there, the length of time out there and if the reviewer has received a free one.

Ever had a dog snapping at your ankles on a bike? My foot would go exactly to where your product would be on my fork to give him a good kick.

Someone who wanted to slow me down or stop me outright could do so with a well timed kick.

And a dynamo hub failure can absolutely be catastrophic if the bearings fail (which does happen and will seize your wheel).

That's just over the top.
Bearing failure has nothing to do with electrical generation.
Perhaps long term use of a dynamo such as yours reduces rim strength leading to catastrophic failure?

Again, see the above answer. All hubs are inherently limited in their charging spec due to their German-regulated power output. That will likely never change as long as the laws exist. If you want faster USB charging PedalCell's proprietary system is the only way to go at the moment!

I wouldn't bet on that!

Most of our riders increase their device usage with more tracking, GPS, taking photos, etc. when having access to PedalCell.

On a lighter note that's another reason for me not to want one!

For me, efficiency is only one aspect.
Simplicity of use is another.
Discretion is important. I've a Son hub and a Cycle2Charge unit. Someone might recognise the hub but the chargepoint is mistaken for a bell - on or off the bike.
Lifespan is another. The expensive part of my system (hub) is guaranteed for five years and can be serviced after that. (They honoured their guarantee when I was dumb enough to ride into a drain in Mexico - even in the midst of a pandemic).
Theoretically, it's a lifetime product.
I said earlier I view it as an investment - not a cost.
My charging unit is cheap and simple. I carry a spare cable for it. Something better on the market and I can upgrade just that.
What is the expected life span of your product?

In the meantime, PedalCell 2 should be based on a hub in my opinion.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

As I said, significantly more than the $299 you have quoted as the cost.

I have no interest in a dynamo of any sort ; it would be overkill for my style of riding. But to see an item's price quoted, more than once, at $299 - instead of the almost $450 which is the actual cost in the UK (around £215 compared to £325), ie more than half as much again - is a bit too much for me to accept without comment.

I'm Irish.
When he first posted I was in Costa Rica. Now I'm in Panamá.
Is the poor chap supposed to know the prices in all those markets too? And list them? It would be an awfully boring response!

Yes, headline price can be misleading but someone on a touring forum surely can understand the difference?

 

[KnittyNorah]

I'm Irish.
When he first posted I was in Costa Rica. Now I'm in Panamá.
Is the poor chap supposed to know the prices in all those markets too? And list them? It would be an awfully boring response!

Yes, headline price can be misleading but someone on a touring forum surely can understand the difference?

Pushing the ONLY $299!!! aspect (which is even in the post providing the link to the UK distributor who of course is totally open about the cost) is, I feel, somewhat disingenuous, as explained earlier.

 

[FishFright]

Pushing the ONLY $299!!! aspect (which is even in the post providing the link to the UK distributor who of course is totally open about the cost) is, I feel, somewhat disingenuous, as explained earlier.

A U.S product sold in the U.S. and they have the cheek to price it in dollars , what's the world coming to?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I had a quick read through the OPs review and at no point does he say he got it as freebie. (Edit - Ah found he does but buried deep in the article). He should be up front if he hasn’t paid for the item with his own money. I’m much less inclined to pay attention to a review where the author hasn’t actually bought the item. A freebie generates a conflict of interest in terms of what you say in a review about the item.

 

[Richard Fairhurst]

To be fair, it's absolutely standard practice in magazine reviews and has been since year dot. I used to edit a waterway magazine... we wouldn't have got very far if we had to spend £150,000 on a new narrowboat to review every month!

Whether the reviewer gets to keep the item afterwards generally depends on the value. If it's a £10 book they won't ask for it back, if it's a £150,000 narrowboat they, sadly, do. (Shame, I would have quite liked a free boat.) The PedalCell is somewhere in the middle, but I wouldn't consider it particularly unusual for the reviewer to keep it.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

I had a quick read through the OPs review and at no point does he say he got it as freebie. (Edit - Ah found he does but buried deep in the article). He should be up front if he hasn’t paid for the item with his own money. I’m much less inclined to pay attention to a review where the author hasn’t actually bought the item. A freebie generates a conflict of interest in terms of what you say in a review about the item.

Indeed, I believe there are rules (and possibly laws in some jurisdictions) about clearly marking Social Media content if sponsorship is involved.

I'm aware of the op from other fora but a long dormant account coming back to life with a review is unusual.
The producer chiming in soon after smacks of a "campaign".
(Ironic too given their supply issues)

As @Richard Fairhurst says it's quite a common practice and I do wonder if there's some conflict between a US and non-US sales/promotion approach?
I think a more up front, transparent approach would suit this forum better.
For example $299 plus import charges.
And a clear expression that the product was a freebie.
And not used in the rain!