Abused by a "fellow" cyclist for stopping at a red light.

[tdr1nka]

I think a shout of 'Other cyclists hate you!' shames them enough.

 

[Twiggy]

Going on the assumption that you were the following cyclist, would you expect a cyclist to possibly put them selves at risk to get you out of danger?

Going on the assumption that I feel endangered by them stopping, they are almost certainly in a position I would consider dangerous to be in.

Never said I'd force them to move, but I'd very much suggest to them they find a safer place to ride.

I think the only situation where a cyclist I was behind stopped and was themselves safe, while leaving me in a poor position, would be them stopping at the edge of an advanced stop line, blocking access to the rest of the stopping line.

 

[tdr1nka]

Surely it's your responsibility to not put yourself in danger if following another cyclist?

If I arrive at lights and I'm in the ASL in a primary position, should I expect to have to cross the lights or position myself further across the traffic if someone behind me cannot push thru?
All of this would be dependent on the level of traffic, phase of the lights and type of junction of course.

But it would seriously concern me if I were being expected to move ahead for someone who had decided to filter down the inside of a bus or a truck to get to an ASL.

If I were the following cyclist in these instances I'd simply hang back in traffic and move off from there.
I'd personally never give anyone else the responsibility of putting me in danger or second guessing my actions.

 

[Twiggy]

Surely it's your responsibility to not put yourself in danger if following another cyclist?

Didn't say I would deliberately put myself in danger. Did I.

But some things you can't control, like someone stopping in an cycle filter lane before the ASL when there is traffic both sides bumper to bumper.
A situation which is dangerous for all concerned.

Would you stay quite and think "my own silly fault for trying to filter behind another cyclist, he was certain to stop right there, it makes so much sense"

Or would you be thinking/saying "excuse me, I'm trying to get to the stopping line"


I don't expect others to keep me safe, but I also don't expect them to put me in a situation where I can't get safe easily.
and I'd certainly get upset if I got a snarky/rude response to a polite request to allow me to get to a safer position.

 

[Jaded]

Frankly, if you can't see ahead that your route to the ASL is blocked and you then put yourself in a position where you could get left-hooked (or you think that getting to an ASL is the nirvana of cycling) then you need to think about your own cycling, rather than the person that has stopped.

 

[4F]

Frankly, if you can't see ahead that your route to the ASL is blocked and you then put yourself in a position where you could get left-hooked (or you think that getting to an ASL is the nirvana of cycling) then you need to think about your own cycling, rather than the person that has stopped.

Absolutely

 

[Origamist]

I don't expect others to keep me safe, but I also don't expect them to put me in a situation where I can't get safe easily.
and I'd certainly get upset if I got a snarky/rude response to a polite request to allow me to get to a safer position.

That's one of the things you should be expecting! Feeders are often blocked on my commute as the ASL reservoir is often full, or other cyclists don't like to use its full width or depth and opt to wait in the feeder. To avoid this, you can overtake on the outside or wait with the traffic. If you start asking people to move, you will often get a dismissive response...

To the OP - the guy was a prat.

 

[Twiggy]

not all feeder lanes are on the left of traffic.
and no, probably not a great example of another rider putting you in peril.

Cycling assertively keeps you safe, being forced into a passive position makes you more likely to be hit and killed.

It's safer to go through lights as they are changing to green, than to wait for traffic to start moving. Certain large vehicles can't see you when you are in front and can easily just roll over you as they start moving at the lights, even if you are in front.

You might not like the idea you are putting others in danger by stopping in certain places, but it's more than possible, and if the person behind you was moved close to set up to overtake, they wont be impressed at losing their speed.

I'd not be impressed with a cyclist who slamed on their brakes to stop at a pedestrian crossing, where the person who triggered the lights has already crossed and no one else is crossing.

 

[Origamist]

not all feeder lanes are on the left of traffic.

and no, probably not a great example of another rider putting you in peril.

Cycling assertively keeps you safe, being forced into a passive position makes you more likely to be hit and killed.

They're not, but the overwhelming majority of feeder lanes are to the left. Interestingly when they're not to the left, they are used considerably less by cyclists so you are less likely to have a blocked feeder...!

Don't let yourself get forced into a passive position - situational awareness is key here.

Any data on "passive positioning" making you a more likely KSI stat?

 

[BentMikey]

I have some sympathy with Twiggy's polite and friendly request to the other cyclist to shift over a little to let them out further.

OTOH, Twiggy, you're wrong to blame the other cyclist for stopping in the scenario you paint, when the blame for your being in a potentially dangerous situation lies squarely and only with you. It's you who chose to give up your safety zone to facilitate a quick filter when you couldn't see the exit to be clear. It's all in the goal of impatience and quick riding, and I don't see any difference between what you've done, and what the impatient car drivers do that we all love to hate.

 

[Twiggy]

I'll quickly point out, I don't actually cycle like this, and always make sure I have an out, the situation is purely hypothetical.
I'm saying that if I came to a situation where I wanted to move past, or around, and I got a rude remark, or vulgarities I'd be rightly pissed off.

and while it's not the responsibility of other people to keep you safe, by instead of politely accepting the request for space/freedom to move, and by blocking the cyclist from advancing, they are putting another in a hostile situation deliberately.

 

[Landslide]

That's an entirely spurious re-reading of the OP. The guy described was an obnoxious (insert expletive of your choice) and I'd probably have stoved his back wheel in.

 

[redjedi]

If he's refusing to move and "RLJ" it must mean he's at the stop line. If the bus is level with him, either there is no ASL for bikes or the bus has stopped in it, which means there is no where to go.

Why do you need to filter past the bus to get to the front anyway? Can't you just stop behind the bus and wait patiently? as you end up doing.

Calling you an peanut is a bit un-called for, but so is asking another road user to move out of your way. You just sound a bit impatient.

( btw...what's a GOB?)

 

[Origamist]

regarding statistics, go look for yourself, I'm not here to prove anything, just to balance the discussion.

Ok, lets re-read the encounter, from another perspective

"I was cycling down the street, and the lights changed to red, and I started filtering forwards to the advanced stop line, the lights have a long sequence so I've got plenty of time to get forward, I'm passing this bus when a GOB in front of me stops in the middle of the filter lane, level with the front of the bus.

I shout 'move over please' and get a 'the lights are red, I'm not going to kill myself by jumping them you idiot'

I admit, I get rather pissed off at this guy, he's not only blocking the filter lane, but is positioned so no one can get past at all, and I swear at him, before going back and setting myself up behind the bus.

Then to make matters worse he calls me an peanut as I pass him, what is wrong with these people, if he'd just moved a little to either the left or right I could have safely merged with the cue or got myself into the advanced stopping area, but no, he sat right in the middle, blocking off the entire way past!"

How'd that look for a situation where another cyclist is putting you in bad position by stopping at the worst possible place.

*but then, you're going to say, "you shouldn't have undertook the bus if the way through wasn't entirely clear" or something along those lines I'm sure*

Sadly, I spend too much of my time searching out papers, reports and books. I was hoping that you would point me in the direction of evidence for your claim re: a passive postion. If you were just playing devil's advocate, fine.

You have indeed answered your "reframing" of the "incident" with your last para.

As I've said, nothing wrong with asking a cyclist to move in the situation you describe, but I would not always expect a civil response.

 

[HLaB]

I had a wee chuckle to my self this morning. On approaching a junction which is narrowed by road works, the bus up ahead has only pulled out of the stop moments before and when the lights had changed it occupied 5/6 of the ASL. I slowed down gradually and stopped behind the bus when another cyclists tries to sqeeze through and get to that ASL. He made it past the bus but there was nowhere safe to go and he had to go into the side road on the left. When the lights changed to green the bus and I cruise past him (I was getting a good draft ) as he was desperately trying to get out of the side road to join the main road again.