Agent Maradona recalled.

[Dec66]

am intgrigued by your apparent obesssion with shilton.
As a student I shared a flat with a woman who was a regular evening drugs user (though usually far weaker than maradonna's favoured substances) - well remember sat on the sofa with her and my other flatmate telling her that she was boring. Of course she thought she was interesting/rebellious.
(wasn't a footballer)

I'm not obsessed with him. He's a dull tw@t who just happened to have shared a moment of history with arguably the greatest footballer of all time.

If he'd been on the bench that day I'd be giving him as little thought as I have done since he retired. Then again, had Chris Woods been playing, he'd have been quicker off his line, the ball would have been punched away, Maradona would have gone down like a sack of cack and Little Englanders (and the press which feeds off them) wouldn't have cryarsed about it ever since.

England would still have lost though, because Argentina and Maradona were on a different planet.

 

[nickyboy]

The handball is a sore point for many Englanders due to their sense of fair play.

But, many societies have a win-at-all costs mentality and would view a cheeky foul or handball as streetwise.

I once saw an interview where an Argentine journalist explained the Argentine population celebrated the handball as much as the wonder goal because Diego gained revenge through guile. After all, the English military had superior weapons and this was the Argentine way of getting even.

Michael Owen has admitted diving to win penalties against Argentina in both the 1998 and the 2002 World Cups.

I don't hear many England supporters complaining about the cheat, Michael Owen. He cheated against Argentina twice, Maradona did it once. It's "streetwise" and "playing them at their own game"

But actually it's down to characterising some countries as dirty cheats with an undercurrent of the Falklands conflict thrown in for good measure.

 

[Dec66]

Michael Owen has admitted diving to win penalties against Argentina in both the 1998 and the 2002 World Cups.

I don't hear many England supporters complaining about the cheat, Michael Owen. He cheated against Argentina twice, Maradona did it once. It's "streetwise" and "playing them at their own game"

But actually it's down to characterising some countries as dirty cheats with an undercurrent of the Falklands conflict thrown in for good measure.

And see how much stick Simeone got for being "a cheating Argie" when Beckham kicked out at him and got sent off in that same game?

As someone said above, everyone hates a cheat, unless they are your cheat.

 

[Rusty Nails]

The handball is a sore point for many Englanders due to their sense of fair play.

But, many societies have a win-at-all costs mentality and would view a cheeky foul or handball as streetwise.

I once saw an interview where an Argentine journalist explained the Argentine population celebrated the handball as much as the wonder goal because Diego gained revenge through guile. After all, the English military had superior weapons and this was the Argentine way of getting even.

'Englander' fair play bullsh*t. It is a sore point because it contributed to them losing the match, not because of any higher sense of fair play.

Michael Owen against Argentina in 2002 World Cup, anyone? As @nickyboy has already mentioned.

(Most) Football fans are blinkered hypocrites, including 'Englanders'.

 

[Accy cyclist]

I've always thought the same - but I don't recall anyone on the scene mentioning it. What you need to remember is that D was absurdly one-footed, so he would have flicked his left-boot at the ball there when any sane player would have used their right.

I have thought about that over the years and it seems the only logical explanation. Yet the ball seems to travel too fast for a mere flick of the boot.🤔 I wonder if Terry Butcher has ever been asked if he can remember how that second or so played out?

 

[Blue Hills]

While I agree with your post, I don't get this "English fair play" bit. The English didn't build their empire on fair play.

"Perfidious Albion", and all that.

perfidious albion was as I seem to recall a phrase used by Napoleon. And popularised by mussolini (chap who declared war on britain and france when they were on the canvas) - not the best of authorities.
The Brit fair play thing is more complex than you imply - Orwell is pretty good on it.

 

[Brandane]

English military

Errrm, I seem to recall that it was the UK military who fought Argentina for the Falklands, a UK territory. Many Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish military personnel were killed and injured along with their English colleagues.
This UK/GB/English thing needs cleared up. Your football team represents England, not Britain or the United Kingdom of GB and NI.. The military is made up of personnel from the 4 nations. Your football fans should remember that the RAF is not "from England" when singing inaccurate songs!!

 

[Dec66]

perfidious albion was as I seem to recall a phrase used by Napoleon. And popularised by mussolini (chap who declared war on britain and france when they were on the canvas) - not the best of authorities.
The Brit fair play thing is more complex than you imply - Orwell is pretty good on it.

I don't think English cheating is imbued solely on the playing fields of English public schools.

I don't think Michael Owen went to one, for instance. Or Tom Simpson.

 

[Blue Hills]

I don't think English cheating is imbued solely on the playing fields of English public schools.

I don't think Michael Owen went to one, for instance. Or Tom Simpson.

for the sake of clarity I don't like any sport cheating by anyone.
I got lots of flack on a cycling forum at the time of the olympics for criticising the brit cycling team for cheating.
Many sports fans I know do justify it as part of the "game".
I find this sad pathetic and is part of the reason i have little interest in competitive sport.

I'd suggest folks have sex* instead of following their game - and try not to fake anything.

* I can't be the only one who has at times looked at some groups of male sports fans in full flood and wondered why they don't just go and indulge in group gay sex. A far cheaper past-time free of corporate bullshit.

 

[Dec66]

* I can't be the only one who has at times looked at some groups of male sports fans in full flood and wondered why they don't just go and indulge in group gay sex. A far cheaper past-time free of corporate bullshit.

That's an interesting psychological leap you make, there...

 

[Blue Hills]

That's an interesting psychological leap you make, there...

not really.
others have seen the same.
Suggest you look more closely at some groups of male football fans when they are roused.

have also spent some boring times in pubs in my younger years with groups of blokes who seemed to use conversations about little else than football as a tool to overcome social, emotional and conversational inhibition.
Pretty sure there will be similar theatricals in large bits of south america in the next few days.

 

[Moodyman]

Errrm, I seem to recall that it was the UK military who fought Argentina for the Falklands, a UK territory. Many Scots, Welsh, and Northern Irish military personnel were killed and injured along with their English colleagues.
made up of personnel from the 4 nations.

Indeed, but England is overwhelmingly the largest part of the UK and is often used interchangeably by outsiders when referring to the union.

Think Holland and Netherlands.

 

[Dec66]

have also spent some boring times in pubs in my younger years with groups of blokes who seemed to use conversations about little else than football as a tool to overcome social, emotional and conversational inhibition.

And why not? If it breaks down barriers, and gets people talking to each other, does it matter whether the shared interest is macrame, Impressionist paintings, heavy metal, baking, classic cars, post-modern architecture, Shimano v. Campagnolo, television, French food, or association football?

Your "boredom" about it seems to say more about you than anything. I can understand you being bored when you can't participate in a conversation about something in which you have no knowledge and no interest, but that's no excuse to be judgemental about people who can talk about it.

When I go and watch Everton, and meet up before and after with the lads who I've been going to the game with for years, we're as likely to talk about some or all of the above as we are about how crap the ref was, or whether Gylfi is stealing a living, or what a snide VVD is. The match is a two-hour interruption into an otherwise entertaining day.

(Of course, then we all have gay sex afterwards, it's the only reason we go really)

 

[matticus]

But actually it's down to characterising some countries as dirty cheats with an undercurrent of the Falklands conflict thrown in for good measure.

I object to this sweeping statement. I know that I'm glad we won the Falklands war ("we" being the UK of course), but I don't have anything against Argies or their country. Here's my favourite joke from possibly the GOAT comedian:

Spoiler: Argies joke

Sometimes he [Bernard Manning] would even tell jokes against his own and his audience's jingoism. In the Embassy one night in 1982, at the height of the Falklands conflict, he announced: "We've got a couple of lads in here tonight. They fought at Goose Green." There was cheering, stamping and applause, until Manning added: "They're Argentinians."

I will support ENG when they play against ARG (in any sport). I may take an unbiased view to events therein ... but that's sport! It's not war, even though some people do confuse the two (sadly). I'd happily shake an opposing supporter's hand if we were watching a match in a London pub, say; and I think that applies to any country*.


*Excepting the Jocks, of course.

 

[bitsandbobs]

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Said to be one million in the queues to pay their last respects. Can anyone think of an English footballer who would get that kind of reaction from the public?

No, but that might be a good thing!