Amateur ignorant ride organiser needs advice about participants having punctures
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Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
You need to set the expectations and responsibilities of riders and of yourself as ride leader in your communications. Decide what you are and are not offering in your rides.
When I lead rides for the Scouts, each rider is supposed to ensure their bike is in good mechanical condition (we teach them this on a winters night beforehand), that they bring a spare tube and crucially they have someone who can pick them up if it all goes wrong. Even though this is stipulated to them and their parents we are lucky to see 10% of them with a tube and probably 30% need something doing to their bike. This is often fixing brakes and increasing saddle height, sometimes by 9” or more. I usually have in my pannier at least 2 x 700c tubes, 2 x 26” tubes, 2 x 24” tubes and 1 x 20” tube as well as all the usual gumpf like first aid kits, maps etc. Funnily enough nobody has ever turned up without a helmet.
I have the full backing of the scouts and will always have at least one full leader with me, but usually two and usually a couple of young leaders (older kids with a brain). I don’t know your situation, but I would not fancy leading a beginners ride without some kind of support, especially a back marker.
I have the full backing of the scouts and will always have at least one full leader with me, but usually two and usually a couple of young leaders (older kids with a brain). I don’t know your situation, but I would not fancy leading a beginners ride without some kind of support, especially a back marker.
DaveReading
Don't suffer fools gladly (must try harder!)
- Location
- Reading, obvs
neil_merseyside
Guru
- Location
- Wirral
Participants to take an inner tube(s) levers and a patch kit, but always get them to swap the tube for speed (patch at lunch if you want) and tools[1]. No-one will mind waiting for a tube swap, it only takes 10 minutes even if you have to instruct the bike owner (and the crowd). I'd always deal with a tube for anyone in my ride group, it's not a selfless as it sounds rather it is just so much quicker, and you can get them to put wheel back and tighten axle from a liability point of view.
Don't be checking bikes for safety as has already been mentioned as you then might carry the can for anything that failed - and you'd not want to find at that point your liability insurance is worthless.
If you do not have any trusty friends (as in previous ride guest who had a clue) who are likely to be able to help/stay with a stranded rider then you need to say at the outset that anyone in trouble has to make their own way, but an easy option, if its possible, is to plan a circular route near a station or one along a rail line (that takes bikes easily?) then anyone stranded can easily make their own way home.
So a ride along a suitable railway route so that escape stations are convenient, or just spiral near a fixed point so heading back directly into the centre with a broken bike is easy. A ~3 mile radius gets a ~25m ride but with a favourable shortcut it's just the 3m back to start.
Oh and the following time do the ride in reverse, no-one will notice (or not care) and anyone who says 'oh no we've done this before' can just plan the next ride [2] All my beginner rides have always had bail out stations for riders who couldn't do as much as they thought, only occasionally did a mechanical mean a train was needed.
[1] My tools and usage:-
Multi tool, for through axles, occasionally fixing rattly loose thing. (used many times, ride buddies and random riders)
5Amp choccy block connector to give a better gear than random default of top or bottom if a rear cable snaps (3 times, 2 for ME!)
Tyre boot for tyre rips, but plastic fivers are supposed to work (once)
Quick chain links in 8,9,10 and 11 the chain tool is on my multi tool (twice, random folk)
Pump/co2/patches that you know are good - rather than the crap some folk think are good. (twenty/thirty times?)
Many tiny clip on 'be seen' lights, october ish onwards (after hour changes, every year for the last 10! same 2 buddies yearly..)
Zip ties for re-fixing mudguards (used weekly come autumn and the use of the winter bike) or as zip pulls.
that list takes up no space at all, other club/touring kit might [3]
[2] Tell them you'd love to go on one of their rides, they almost always back off rapidly but occasionally do step up as a navigator if not leader!
[3] Club issued kit or my distance kit
Space blanket if out in the sticks rather than in a town, tiny (Never used but know of them being usedx2)
First Aid kit (big and a bloody nuisance) never used thankfully
I carry spare gear and brake inners when touring, or longer rural rides (tiny size, and my shifter used to snap rear cable at the shifter)
(used to carry) Spare folding tyre on tour in the wilds, saved long walks (twice) and urban-ly maybe 6 times! (most folk do have better tyres now).
All unused threaded bosses on my bike usually have relevant fasteners fitted as spares for those that rattle off other bikes (used a few)
Don't be checking bikes for safety as has already been mentioned as you then might carry the can for anything that failed - and you'd not want to find at that point your liability insurance is worthless.
If you do not have any trusty friends (as in previous ride guest who had a clue) who are likely to be able to help/stay with a stranded rider then you need to say at the outset that anyone in trouble has to make their own way, but an easy option, if its possible, is to plan a circular route near a station or one along a rail line (that takes bikes easily?) then anyone stranded can easily make their own way home.
So a ride along a suitable railway route so that escape stations are convenient, or just spiral near a fixed point so heading back directly into the centre with a broken bike is easy. A ~3 mile radius gets a ~25m ride but with a favourable shortcut it's just the 3m back to start.
Oh and the following time do the ride in reverse, no-one will notice (or not care) and anyone who says 'oh no we've done this before' can just plan the next ride [2] All my beginner rides have always had bail out stations for riders who couldn't do as much as they thought, only occasionally did a mechanical mean a train was needed.
[1] My tools and usage:-
Multi tool, for through axles, occasionally fixing rattly loose thing. (used many times, ride buddies and random riders)
5Amp choccy block connector to give a better gear than random default of top or bottom if a rear cable snaps (3 times, 2 for ME!)
Tyre boot for tyre rips, but plastic fivers are supposed to work (once)
Quick chain links in 8,9,10 and 11 the chain tool is on my multi tool (twice, random folk)
Pump/co2/patches that you know are good - rather than the crap some folk think are good. (twenty/thirty times?)
Many tiny clip on 'be seen' lights, october ish onwards (after hour changes, every year for the last 10! same 2 buddies yearly..)
Zip ties for re-fixing mudguards (used weekly come autumn and the use of the winter bike) or as zip pulls.
that list takes up no space at all, other club/touring kit might [3]
[2] Tell them you'd love to go on one of their rides, they almost always back off rapidly but occasionally do step up as a navigator if not leader!
[3] Club issued kit or my distance kit
Space blanket if out in the sticks rather than in a town, tiny (Never used but know of them being usedx2)
First Aid kit (big and a bloody nuisance) never used thankfully
I carry spare gear and brake inners when touring, or longer rural rides (tiny size, and my shifter used to snap rear cable at the shifter)
(used to carry) Spare folding tyre on tour in the wilds, saved long walks (twice) and urban-ly maybe 6 times! (most folk do have better tyres now).
All unused threaded bosses on my bike usually have relevant fasteners fitted as spares for those that rattle off other bikes (used a few)
PaulSB
Legendary Member
- Location
- Chorley, Lancashire
You asked for specific answers to your questions. I'm looking at this assuming the riders are responsible adults. If you are taking minors out you need to consider a whole host of other things. I ride in rural Lancashire along with Cumbria and Yorkshire. I find it hard to understand how a rider, possibly different for a vulnerable person, couldn't help themselves under the circumstances you describe. I would suggest the type of failures you describe are very rare. In London it's hard to imagine how appropriate help, train, taxi, friend couldn't be found in a very short time.
I would not ask for the cost of the tube. I would hope it would be offered or be given a replacement on the next ride but I would never ask. I would always carry two tubes, a tyre boot, tyre levers, pump and patches and would expect every rider to do the same. If a puncture can't be fixed with that lot it must be a catastrophic failure. You could ask for a volunteer with the other option being for the rider to call a friend or taxi. I would only ever carry the equipment needed for myself and be prepared to give it to others if necessary.
Ask the rider to phone a friend or call a taxi. On my rides we would all consider it reasonable to wait while the help arrived but rarely do so as most people are happy to wait alone.
These circumstances are very rare and I have only known one ride abandoned in all my cycling life. We were 30-40 miles in to a 140 mile ride. A good friend crashed and needed an ambulance. Myself and another friend went to the hospital with her - bikes in the ambulance as well!! Everyone else decided to return home as we were all very concerned for our friend and had lost around an hour's ride time on what was a very long route.
Calling off a ride en route and then leaving people to their own initiative should only happen under extreme circumstances such as the above.
If all decisions are yours alone whether insured or not I would be very, very wary of my actions. You have stated you organise and lead rides and you should investigate very carefully the insurance you have. Standard liability may not be adequate and, yes, you are quite right your riders do have reasonable expectations of you as you have placed yourself in the role of organiser/leader. Have you ever seen the Risk Assessment for a Ride Leader? You have stated you don't know the people you ride with. You therefore cannot know their reaction to any incident. A dangerous situation to place yourself in. It's a very kind but equally a potentially very difficult, dangerous thing to do.
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Sittingduck
Legendary Member
- Location
- Somewhere flat
Very well then…
No you should not ask for a volunteer, this will put pressure on people
No you should not abandon the ride imho
I find it extremely unlikely that on a casually organised ride in London that a train station would not be fairly close by
Don’t expect the cost of a tube back if you offer one
that being said if you clearly state that people are expected to bring TWO spare tubes a pump levers and the knowledge to change a tube and fix mend a puncture then I find it quite unlikely that abandons will be common
if riders choose to ignore this requirement, it is really on them to be honest and they shouldn’t expect everybody else’s ride to be ruined because of their lack of compliance
And lastly, I think you could be asking for trouble personally. No backup/back marker/ TEC/ red beacon or call it what you will on a ride with a bunch of randoms who are quite possibly going to be clueless when it comes to group riding. Do you offer any basic advice at the start about calling holes, gravel, slowing, stopping, car up, car down, etc.? These kind of things are definitely needed in a group and if it isn’t properly organised then it has the potential to go pear shaped.
How many people come on these rides and how long do they last, do you go and do laps round Regents park with a Group of 4 or ride to Cambridge with 15 newbies in tow, for example? I have known casually organised meet-up type rides that do both. The second one was an interesting experience...
This is not a criticism but organising these things so they are enjoyable, flexible and above all safe is difficult for one person to do, I think.
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Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
First thing you should do for safety and security is to buddy up your riders into pairs.
Also its not just liability and insurance to worry about. In the - hopefully unlikely - event that a participent should die you may have some awkward questions asked of you by a Coroner's Court about your skills and qualifications to be organising and running group rides.
Im a recently retired advanced skills trainer, and a chap I vaguely know who qualified with the dame training body as myself had just this happen to him in Derbyshire. He was able to look them in the eye and not only reel off his experience and qualifications, but also produce his certificates and logbook as proof. I would suggest that you really don't want to be caught naked without such defences if something unpleasant should happen on a ride you are identified as having organised.
Also its not just liability and insurance to worry about. In the - hopefully unlikely - event that a participent should die you may have some awkward questions asked of you by a Coroner's Court about your skills and qualifications to be organising and running group rides.
Im a recently retired advanced skills trainer, and a chap I vaguely know who qualified with the dame training body as myself had just this happen to him in Derbyshire. He was able to look them in the eye and not only reel off his experience and qualifications, but also produce his certificates and logbook as proof. I would suggest that you really don't want to be caught naked without such defences if something unpleasant should happen on a ride you are identified as having organised.
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I would only call a ride off mid-ride if I/my bike was unfit to continue and I didn't trust any of the others pesent to take over.
There are too many variables/hypotheses in the other questions to answer them.
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
It would be a good idea to advise your participants to ensure that their bikes are roadworthy and that they have everything they need with them.
Here is a link to the Fridays page on this subject. Obviously as the Fridays do night rides some of the information is specific to that, but it's a good general start. But take the anti-mudguard rant with a pinch of salt (and this is the toned-down anti-mudguard rant, you should have seen the old one)
https://www.fnrttc.org.uk/all-about-the-bike
Here is a link to the Fridays page on this subject. Obviously as the Fridays do night rides some of the information is specific to that, but it's a good general start. But take the anti-mudguard rant with a pinch of salt (and this is the toned-down anti-mudguard rant, you should have seen the old one)
https://www.fnrttc.org.uk/all-about-the-bike
presta
Guru
I've had as many as four punctures in a day. If you use your spare tube the first time and then the next one occurs in the pouring rain, you won't be able to get the patch to stick in the wet.
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Having a good knowledge of bail out options on your routes, and planning routes with plenty of them is generally a good idea. I ride alone mostly and at any given time I can generally know where the nearest train station is, as that's my only method of rescue ... or just a shortcut home if I'm not feeling great or the weather is crappy.
As to carrying spares, I think a good policy would be to carry plenty of tools and spares of different sizes just in case (tubes, cleat bolts, split links, bottle cage bolts, instant patches ... ) but aim never to use them - expect your riders to be properly equipped. If - for whatever reason - they aren't then you can help - that's defence in depth.
Also group rides are one time (IMO the only time) that CO2 inflators come in very handy as they reduce waiting time while everyone stands around, so carrying one of those and couple of spare cannisters might be a good idea.
