An open letter to all condescending male chauvinist cyclists

[boydj]

Interestingly it is now 50 years this week since a woman first ran the Boston Marathon (illegally) - and then it took another 5 years for women to be allowed to run 1500m at the Olympics.

It seems that some attitudes towards women have not changed much in those 50 years.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Given that British women's medal tally at the world track championships exceeds that of the men, perhaps the advice should be travelling in the opposite direction....

 

[ufkacbln]

A question for 'some' of the male members...

If your wife/sister/mother/daughter were a competent & confident cyclist, would you assume that a comment to use a lower/higher gear, wear a helmet and/or hi-viz clothing was 'being helpful', or would you rather they just mind their own business?

Context is all

I know people on here and in cycling groups who will tell anybody not wearing a helmet or Hi-viz to wear it

I would have to be convinced that their decision to do so was unique or different in this case and based on gender

 

[swansonj]

[QUOTE 4763004, member: 43827"]...

I agreed that it is a problem caused by male a-holes, but are you seriously telling me it is it the biggest problem that women face? .,.[/QUOTE]

I'd tentative suggest that male a-holes giving advice, specifically, on cycling,may well not be the biggest problem women face; but that male a-holes, in one manifestation or another, probably are pretty close to being the biggest problem that not just women but the whole world faces.

 

[growingvegetables]

""That's one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind."

 

[Pat "5mph"]

[QUOTE 4763004, member: 43827"]I agreed that it is a problem caused by male a-holes, but are you seriously telling me it is it the biggest problem that women face?[/QUOTE]
Of course not.
As I said umpteen times up thread, I personally am quite thick skinned, lots of male (and female) patronizing goes right over my head, takes a few repeats until I notice that the other person is a pain.
BUT when I'm with my ladies group I feel protective of them.
Several are beginners, some are older, some have the bike skills but lack road confidence, others are new in town, they come along to learn routes.
Several of us did the leader's course, we volunteer to take groups for rides and we want to give our groups a good experience.
Having random men barging into our ride to give us a sermon is certainly not part of a good riding experience.
So, while this is just a minor niggle in the grand scale of things, it could certainly put off some women from cycling: I'm not having it!

[QUOTE 4763190, member: 43827"]I clearly said that embarrassing patronising men at the time will help reduce the problem. I did not say, and do not believe it would resolve it.[/QUOTE]
Ime, they just ride off in a half when I answer sharply, no doubt thinking it's my time of the month.
Tbh, some ladies of a sweeter disposition than mine have said "oh, Pat, that wasn't nice".
I'm still not having it!

 

[mjr]

Selection bias, eh? Except there's probably as many men replying on this thread as women, so that's dubious.

Not only. There's also a secondary effect of the problem. It seems women complaining about rude daffodils get some support, some dismissals. Men complaining about them get told to MTFU or words that feel like that by almost everyone, or to STFU because it happens more to women.

Anecdotal evidence Welcome to Trump world!

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Men complaining about them get told to MTFU or words that feel like that by almost everyone, or to STFU because it happens more to women.

I have not noticed the first instance of your examples on this thread.
I have noticed the second, yes.

 

[Bonus]

Could do it without thinking when a kid. Definitely a lost skill.

I think that's because falling off a kids bike you only have a little way to fall whereas perched on top of my 29er it's a long way down!

 

[jefmcg]

[QUOTE 4763190, member: 43827"]I hesitate to reply as almost anything I say will be taken as further evidence of my male chauvinism.[/QUOTE]
It's a puzzle, isn't it? How do you explain sexism to women without coming over as patronising?

 

[ufkacbln]

... o

It's a puzzle, isn't it? How do you explain sexism to women without coming over as patronising?

Or dismissed as "mansplaining"?

 

[jefmcg]

 

[jonny jeez]

I'm going to give this a try.

Firstly. I am a man.

Secondly, I do truly believe that more of these patronising men offering unsolicited advice, are simply idiots that do the same to men and women. Than out and out chauvinists.

But...and this is the result of reading through many of the posts that make hard reading, not because of their content but their phrasing (a discussion for another time perhaps?) I am trying to understand if their is a different motivation or drive for some of these idiots. Do they offer me, a man, advice to compensate....and do they offer women advice to patronise (perhaps compensate In other ways). I'm sure some do...and I'm sure some dont.

I've have been thinking about the issue of Power. The nearest I can come to experiencing this is on hills.

I'm a big rider, I over 6ft and "well built". On certain incline hills (usually over 15%) I am disappointingly slow. But those that ride with me know that on the flat I am fast. I also have a lot of stamina and can ride a long distance at an overall and average pace that is considered "good".

In short, overall I am capable or more than equal to most riders.

Yet at the top of a hill, I am usually met with a number of "supportive "comments, back slaps and suggestions of how to improve.i usually respond verbally with good grace but internally hate the advice. I know that at the end of the ride most, if not all, of these kind riders will be arriving empty of energy yet full of excuses for their delay...traffic lights, lorries, other riders.

I have even noticed how some of these riders seem to plan subsequent rides to incorporate hills...or perhaps they don't. Perhaps that's my suspicion of their motives getting the better of me, perhaps it should.

This is the closest I can get to imagining how it feels to be permanently riding up a hill in the eyes of an entire gender rather than just a few knobs in a group ride, always being the obvious target for helpful.advice, always being weaker, slower...less. So I think I can start to understand how, eventually this can make me sensitive (sorry I had to use that word...at least I didn't say emotional) to these types of interactions.

What does all this mean? To me it means that yes, some of these patronising men are indeed chauvinist, many dont know it, most more likely do and are happy with that.

But not all are, in my example, some are genuine in their advice, they know I am.a strong rider and dont want to see a small bump in performance compromise my overall experience, they recognise that I am struggling in the moment and want me to be back on pace, showing them...motivating them...inspiring them.

 

[jefmcg]

... o


Or dismissed as "mansplaining"?

Whoosh!

 

[Justinslow]

I'm going to give this a try.

Firstly. I am a man.

Secondly, I do truly believe that more of these patronising men offering unsolicited advice, are simply idiots that do the same to men and women. Than out and out chauvinists.

But...and this is the result of reading through many of the posts that make hard reading, not because of their content but their phrasing (a discussion for another time perhaps?) I am trying to understand if their is a different motivation or drive for some of these idiots. Do they offer me, a man, advice to compensate....and do they offer women advice to patronise (perhaps compensate In other ways). I'm sure some do...and I'm sure some dont.

I've have been thinking about the issue of Power. The nearest I can come to experiencing this is on hills.

I'm a big rider, I over 6ft and "well built". On certain incline hills (usually over 15%) I am disappointingly slow. But those that ride with me know that on the flat I am fast. I also have a lot of stamina and can ride a long distance at an overall and average pace that is considered "good".

In short, overall I am capable or more than equal to most riders.

Yet at the top of a hill, I am usually met with a number of "supportive "comments, back slaps and suggestions of how to improve.i usually respond verbally with good grace but internally hate the advice. I know that at the end of the ride most, if not all, of these kind riders will be arriving empty of energy yet full of excuses for their delay...traffic lights, lorries, other riders.

I have even noticed how some of these riders seem to plan subsequent rides to incorporate hills...or perhaps they don't. Perhaps that's my suspicion of their motives getting the better of me, perhaps it should.

This is the closest I can get to imagining how it feels to be permanently riding up a hill in the eyes of an entire gender rather than just a few knobs in a group ride, always being the obvious target for helpful.advice, always being weaker, slower...less. So I think I can start to understand how, eventually this can make me sensitive (sorry I had to use that word...at least I didn't say emotional) to these types of interactions.

What does all this mean? To me it means that yes, some of these patronising men are indeed chauvinist, many dont know it, most more likely do and are happy with that.

But not all are, in my example, some are genuine in their advice, they know I am.a strong rider and dont want to see a small bump in performance compromise my overall experience, they recognise that I am struggling in the moment and want me to be back on pace, showing them...motivating them...inspiring them.

You think too much