An open letter to all condescending male chauvinist cyclists

[summerdays]

[QUOTE 4757196, member: 76"]But we only have one side of the interaction. So, possibly the ones listed were meant in good faith, but Pat has misinterpreted them? You say women know when they are being patronised, but obviously any interaction has two sides, what if the intention was not to patronise?[/QUOTE]
It could have been made in the person's opinion to be helpful but perhaps they need to reassess whether it is actually patronising? And that was the purpose of the OP to make people think about how they may appear to others?

 

[Julia9054]

[QUOTE 4757196, member: 76"]But we only have one side of the interaction. So, possibly the ones listed were meant in good faith, but Pat has misinterpreted them? You say women know when they are being patronised, but obviously any interaction has two sides, what if the intention was not to patronise?[/QUOTE]
Pat has not misinterpreted them.
If the intention is not to patronise, then the men in question need to seriously examine their intentions and communication skills.
Is it ok for someone to be racist as long as they don't realise they are? Or is it up to all of us to be aware of the things we say and how we come across?

 

[Julia9054]

It could have been made in the person's opinion to be helpful but perhaps they need to reassess whether it is actually patronising? And that was the purpose of the OP to make people think about how they may appear to others?

Beat me to it!

 

[theclaud]

[QUOTE 4757209, member: 76"]Oh right, it is a non-discussion because it may be that Pat was wrong? Admitting that is too painful isn't it?[/QUOTE]

 

[Julia9054]

[QUOTE 4757211, member: 76"]And we know that for definite because.........[/QUOTE]
. . . . she was there and you weren't

 

[growingvegetables]

What we expect is that when such interactions are reported, we are believed.

^^^ This. Big time.

 

[growingvegetables]

[QUOTE 4757214, member: 76"]I don't hear many calls for her to have thought through her little better.[/QUOTE]
There may be a very simple reason for that.

And it has NOTHING to do with @Pat "5mph".

 

[slowmotion]

But not "good boy"?

I'm not au-fait with current trends in anti-ageism, but I think that a male of three score years might possibly be called "man" without feeling a huge sense of outrage. It's rather a long time ago for me, but don't seem to have been harbouring a massive grudge for all these decades about being called "a boy" when I was still in nappies.

 

[Julia9054]

[QUOTE 4757214, member: 76"]But how has Pat come across to some of us on here? As a patronising woman who thinks it is ok to dump all men in a basket labelled arrogant nobber.

I don't hear many calls for her to have thought through her little better.[/QUOTE]
Dear god!
I read her original post as a "light hearted but serious" way to explain what grinds her gears about a certain type of male way of being a dickhead.
Most women reading her post would be nodding in recognition in some way.
I expect most men would spend about 5 seconds examining their past interactions to make sure it didn't apply to them and then nodding with some sort of empathy.
We realise it is not all men.
We know that some women can be dickheads too but probably expressed in a different way
I also realise (second hand), as the mother of two young adult men, that men suffer from their own form of tedious macho interractions with dickheads in the name of "banter" which I am sure is just as tedious for some men - but in a different way.
I have no idea why I am even bothering to engage with this - I can only put it down to having had a couple of glasses of wine.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

@User76 how come you take this personally?
If you're in the habit of dishing out unsolicited "help" to other cyclists, kindly desist, that's all I'm asking.
If you carry on then get clubbered by a flying bike pump don't blame me.

 

[growingvegetables]

[QUOTE 4757232, member: 76"]... It becomes completely unacceptable after it has been pointed out and the behaviour is repeated[/QUOTE]

Absolute B@LL@X. It is unacceptable the moment it is uttered. END OF.

 

[smutchin]

Aaah so that excuses the behaviour a prolific poster derides , yet displays.

Do what I say not what I do ? Never a great tactic .

It's unfortunate that the humorous intent of TMN's didn't come across to you.

 

[winjim]

I'm not au-fait with current trends in anti-ageism, but I think that a male of three score years might possibly be called "man" without feeling a huge sense of outrage. It's rather a long time ago for me, but don't seem to have been harbouring a massive grudge for all these decades about being called "a boy" when I was still in nappies.

AFAIAA @User13710 is not still in nappies so may well object to being called "a girl". My daughter is a girl but she is not a "good" girl as she has not yet eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and is thus incapable of being "good". There's not really much of an overlap between the periods of time when it's appropriate to call somebody "good" and "girl".

 

[Shaun]

@User76 please. Pat wasn't having a go at all men, just relating her experience and clearly aiming her request at condescending men to consider their motivations, actions and words as they had clearly frustrated her and her friends whilst out cycling.

Throughout the thread it is clear that most women don't feel most men are patronising, and indeed, where they need, want and ask for help and advice, will readily accept and appreciate it.

You, as well as every other bloke here on CycleChat will have come across at least one guy in your lifetime who behaves the way Pat's describing (or worse), so it's not hard to accept that such unwanted and unwarranted attention or interference would be frustrating to Pat, her friends, and other female cyclists.

 

[slowmotion]

AFAIAA @User13710 is not still in nappies so may well object to being called "a girl". My daughter is a girl but she is not a "good" girl as she has not yet eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and is thus incapable of being "good". There's not really much of an overlap between the periods of time when it's appropriate to call somebody "good" and "girl".

I was commenting on your reluctance to call your one year old "good girl".
Anyway, it doesn't matter. Let's leave it.